Well, I typed CHL twice. Concealed HANDGUN License.Werz wrote:It would be wise to specify that this applies to handguns only. Even if you have a CHL, a loaded magazine cannot be inserted into a long gun.pirateguy191 wrote:A loaded magazine is no longer a loaded gun. With your CHL, carry any way you please. Without a CHL, the magazine may be loaded but the empty gun and mag have to be in two separate closed containers.JohnZ wrote:A loaded magazine inside the car apart from the gun is still considered a loaded gun, right? And I assume it's the same thing if you have a holstered gun that's unloaded and a full mag in your pocket.
Three points from firing
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- pirateguy191
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Re: Three points from firing
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
- Werz
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Re: Three points from firing
Per TOSeye95 wrote:Yep. You start by working within the political system. However, when in the course of human events...Brian D. wrote:As I recall the Founders ended up shooting the people in charge to change THEIR minds. Well, the armed flunkies of those in charge.
"No abusive posts -- these include attacks against individuals, their opinions, their statements, or attacks against OFCC -- if you have a complaint against the way something is done or a decision that was stated, please raise it with a moderator. This rule is primarily for those controversial discussions where forum members tend to attack each other (what is commonly referred to as “flaming” or a “flame war). Such posts will not be tolerated once noticed by the moderators or once brought to our attention".....Djmac
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
- Werz
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Re: Three points from firing
Okey dokey. Let's review those terms of service:Werz wrote:Per TOSeye95 wrote:Yep. You start by working within the political system. However, when in the course of human events...Brian D. wrote:As I recall the Founders ended up shooting the people in charge to change THEIR minds. Well, the armed flunkies of those in charge.
"No abusive posts -- these include attacks against individuals, their opinions, their statements, or attacks against OFCC -- if you have a complaint against the way something is done or a decision that was stated, please raise it with a moderator. This rule is primarily for those controversial discussions where forum members tend to attack each other (what is commonly referred to as “flaming” or a “flame war). Such posts will not be tolerated once noticed by the moderators or once brought to our attention".....Djmac
'Nuff said.Messages exhorting others to commit illegal acts or describing illegal acts you’ve committed or intend to commit are expressly forbidden.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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Re: Three points from firing
Brian D. wrote:As I recall the Founders ended up shooting the people in charge to change THEIR minds. Well, the armed flunkies of those in charge.
Black Rifles Matter
- MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Three points from firing
If my life were threatened, I would not hesitate to shoot the threat in the face.
That is an illegal act in the state of Ohio.
Illegal. All day. Every day. All night long.
We discuss such things all the time.
We have discussed these intentions and actual events, at length, ad nauseum.
We routinely encourage others to perform these illegal acts.
Of course, if we HAVE A GOOD REASON FOR DOING SO, we simply won't be charged and/or convicted.
That is an illegal act in the state of Ohio.
Illegal. All day. Every day. All night long.
We discuss such things all the time.
We have discussed these intentions and actual events, at length, ad nauseum.
We routinely encourage others to perform these illegal acts.
Of course, if we HAVE A GOOD REASON FOR DOING SO, we simply won't be charged and/or convicted.
MyWifeSaidYes
- DontTreadOnMe
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Re: Three points from firing
That depends. If you were responsible for creating the incident, or you failed to meet a duty to retreat, then yes it would be illegal. Otherwise it's an act of legal self-defense.MyWifeSaidYes wrote:If my life were threatened, I would not hesitate to shoot the threat in the face.
That is an illegal act in the state of Ohio.
Illegal. All day. Every day. All night long.
No this badly mischaracterizes self-defense as an illegal act that isn't punished. That's very wrong. It is a legal justification for an act that in different circumstances would be illegal.MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Of course, if we HAVE A GOOD REASON FOR DOING SO, we simply won't be charged and/or convicted.
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Re: Three points from firing
Welcome to Ohio.DontTreadOnMe wrote:That depends. If you were responsible for creating the incident, or you failed to meet a duty to retreat, then yes it would be illegal. Otherwise it's an act of legal self-defense.MyWifeSaidYes wrote:If my life were threatened, I would not hesitate to shoot the threat in the face.
That is an illegal act in the state of Ohio.
Illegal. All day. Every day. All night long.
No this badly mischaracterizes self-defense as an illegal act that isn't punished. That's very wrong. It is a legal justification for an act that in different circumstances would be illegal.MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Of course, if we HAVE A GOOD REASON FOR DOING SO, we simply won't be charged and/or convicted.
There is NO such thing as "legal" self-defense in Ohio, only an affirmative defense...meaning YOU must prove your innocence.
This is NOT a mischaracterization.
This is exactly how it happens in this state.
When you shoot someone, for any reason, even self-defense, you have committed aggravated assault or worse.
You have NOT committed "self-defense".
You are guilty until proven innocent.
Yes, Ohio sucks that way.
And talking about crimes we intend to commit violates the TOS.
MyWifeSaidYes
- DontTreadOnMe
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Re: Three points from firing
People who prove their innocence are, by definition, not guilty of a crime.MyWifeSaidYes wrote:There is NO such thing as "legal" self-defense in Ohio, only an affirmative defense...meaning YOU must prove your innocence.
Advising a person to take an action whereby they are not guilty under the laws as written, therefore, is not encouraging someone to commit an illegal act. This is substantially different than advising a person to take an action which is against the law but their odds of prosecution are low.
Your argument is like saying it's illegal for a person with a CHL to carry a concealed handgun, because they have to prove that their doing so isn't against the law. Carrying a concealed handgun is against the law. The law provides exceptions whereby doing so is allowed, which (again, by definition) makes it not against the law in those cases.
The fact that the self-defense exception is in a different statute vs. a different sub-section doesn't change the circular logic you're using.
- schmieg
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Re: Three points from firing
The point that MWSY is making is that in other states, the prosecutor has to prove that you shot the person in the face while not defending yourself from serious bodily harm or death. In Ohio, he just has to prove that you shot the person in the face (well, a bit more depending on the elements of the specific charges you face). You, then, have the burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence, that the shoot was in self defense and you must prove all of the elements of self defense. Ohio is different from everywhere else in that regard.DontTreadOnMe wrote:People who prove their innocence are, by definition, not guilty of a crime.MyWifeSaidYes wrote:There is NO such thing as "legal" self-defense in Ohio, only an affirmative defense...meaning YOU must prove your innocence.
Advising a person to take an action whereby they are not guilty under the laws as written, therefore, is not encouraging someone to commit an illegal act. This is substantially different than advising a person to take an action which is against the law but their odds of prosecution are low.
Your argument is like saying it's illegal for a person with a CHL to carry a concealed handgun, because they have to prove that their doing so isn't against the law. Carrying a concealed handgun is against the law. The law provides exceptions whereby doing so is allowed, which (again, by definition) makes it not against the law in those cases.
The fact that the self-defense exception is in a different statute vs. a different sub-section doesn't change the circular logic you're using.
-- Mike
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
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Re: Three points from firing
If, by "Everywhere," you mean that all States put the burden of proof for self-defense on the defendant, I think you are wrong.MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Everywhere.
Didn't we learn in the Zimmerman case that, in Florida, the burden is placed very specifically and completely on the prosecution to prove it was NOT self-defense in order to convict?
Be a Madisonian.
It finally happened. I have now been accused on OFCC of both being a cop-hater and then a cop-lover! Therefore, anyone making either accusation must not be paying attention.
It finally happened. I have now been accused on OFCC of both being a cop-hater and then a cop-lover! Therefore, anyone making either accusation must not be paying attention.
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Re: Three points from firing
This quote from Schmieg is what MyWifeSaidYes was referring to when he stated "everywhere", I'm pretty sure. Sure enough to bet the house.schmieg wrote:You, then, have the burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence, that the shoot was in self defense and you must prove all of the elements of self defense. Ohio is different from everywhere else in that regard.
I am gonna do like Sonny Pruitt now and...read another thread.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!
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1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
- schmieg
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Re: Three points from firing
MWSY was referring to my saying Ohio differed from EVERYWHERE else, so he is correct.eye95 wrote:If, by "Everywhere," you mean that all States put the burden of proof for self-defense on the defendant, I think you are wrong.MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Everywhere.
Didn't we learn in the Zimmerman case that, in Florida, the burden is placed very specifically and completely on the prosecution to prove it was NOT self-defense in order to convict?
-- Mike
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
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Re: Three points from firing
Ah.
Thank you for the clarification. I misunderstood.
Thank you for the clarification. I misunderstood.
Be a Madisonian.
It finally happened. I have now been accused on OFCC of both being a cop-hater and then a cop-lover! Therefore, anyone making either accusation must not be paying attention.
It finally happened. I have now been accused on OFCC of both being a cop-hater and then a cop-lover! Therefore, anyone making either accusation must not be paying attention.