Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Open Carry is carrying a firearm unconcealed in Ohio. OC does not require a concealed handgun license, but the practice requires intimate knowledge of the law since there are places and situations where OC is prohibited but carrying concealed would be permitted. OC is also likely to attract attention. This forum is for discussion of OC, not for debating the pro's and con's or coordinating any type of protest events.

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Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Postby eye95 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:10 pm

Article summarizes the blood running in the streets in Texas.

http://www.ijreview.com/2016/02/533042- ... carry-law/

Whoodathunk?

Almost every State has some form of Open Carry. Didn't any of the antis in TX bother to check on the reality of OC before making dire predictions? They look like fools.
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Re: Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Postby M-Quigley » Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:32 pm

It's great that nothing bad has happened, but a recent appeals court decision (which SCOTUS refused to hear) basically said facts don't matter anymore. The only important thing is whether people feel safe or not. :roll: By "people" I think they meant only anti gun liberals, since the appeals court never bothered to ask anyone from the pro gun side how they felt about the law. :roll:
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Re: Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Postby eye95 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:40 pm

Which case would that be?
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Re: Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:13 pm

eye95 wrote:Which case would that be?

Probably something from the 9th Circuit.
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Re: Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Postby eye95 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:22 pm

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
eye95 wrote:Which case would that be?

Probably something from the 9th Circuit.


Well, I wanted to actually read the case. I find that the net results of most cases are misstated on message boards, especially when vaguely cited.
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Re: Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:41 am

After looking around, I would bet that M-Q is referring to "Friedman v. City of Highland Park, Illinois" from the 7th Circuit.

https://www.firearmspolicy.org/wp-conte ... cision.pdf

If it has no other effect, Highland Park’s ordinance may
increase the public’s sense of safety
. Mass shootings are rare,
but they are highly salient, and people tend to overestimate
the likelihood of salient events. See George F. Loewenstein,
Christopher K. Hsee, Elke U. Weber & Ned Welch, Risk as
Feelings, 127 Psychological Bulletin 267, 275–76 (2001); Eric J.
Johnson, John Hershey, Jacqueline Meszaros & Howard
Kunreuther, Framing, Probability Distortions, and Insurance
Decisions, 7 J. Risk & Uncertainty 35 (1993). If a ban on semi‐
automatic guns and large‐capacity magazines reduces the
perceived risk from a mass shooting, and makes the public
feel safer as a result, that’s a substantial benefit
. Cf. Frank v.
Walker, 768 F.3d 744, 751 (7th Cir. 2014).



Of note (to me)...a 12-page decision with a 16-page dissent.
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Re: Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Postby SMMAssociates » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:33 am

I'm not a proponent of OC, but (being a gun person, I guess), refuse to object to it.... Particularly in states where an accidental exposure can leave you in a world of hurt, as was the situation in TX if somebody wanted to get nasty about it. TX and other states have closed that trap out....

However:

If a ban on semi‐
automatic guns and large‐capacity magazines reduces the
perceived risk from a mass shooting, and makes the public
feel safer as a result, that’s a substantial benefit.


So, if I feel that Muslims make me feel unsafe, or some other ethnic group, or some symbols (like a creche), and can talk a few other people into agree with me.... :D

Likewise, if being unarmed makes me feel unsafe....

Now, that's what I call a precedent! (IANAL)

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Guess these guys don't know what the difference between semi-auto and full-auto is, too.... :(

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(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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Re: Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Postby M-Quigley » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:31 am

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:After looking around, I would bet that M-Q is referring to "Friedman v. City of Highland Park, Illinois" from the 7th Circuit.


Yes, that was the one. I couldn't believe it when I read it. I mean, forget the issue of guns for a second. To let any law stand based on that decision was just mind boggling. :(
How far do you extend that line of reasoning? Some area has a terrorist incident like in the movie "The Siege" and starts putting Muslims in internment camps in the interest of public safety? It might make some people feel safer.

When someone mentioned to me once about how uneasy they felt when they saw a person OC, I tried to convince him logically that they didn't need to automatically be afraid about it. He wasn't interested in logic, it just didn't feel right, seeing that gun on their hip the whole time. (or has Mas Ayoob called it once, "upsetting the horses") He was okay with CCW, so for some people ignorance truly is bliss.

Another downside to reading the decision, was for some reason that stupid sappy song that I hated in the seventies popped into my head, the one that goes, "Feelings, nothing more than feelings, ...." :evil:
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Re: Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Postby M-Quigley » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:37 am

SMMAssociates wrote:Likewise, if being unarmed makes me feel unsafe....


Sorry, but your feelings don't count for the 7th circuit, only the feelings of anti gunners :roll:
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Re: Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Postby BobK » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:02 am

I wish Open Carry had never passed here (in Texas).

It was like coming to heaven carrying here for the first 5 years I lived here, compared to carrying in Ohio. In five years, I could count on my fingers the number of times I encountered an establishment properly posting a sign banning guns (aka 3.06 sign). Signage was very, very rare.

Since Jan 1st, I see properly posted signs banning firearms springing up all over the place. It affects my personal life as multiple places that I encounter on a daily or weekly basis are now posted. I no longer have enough fingers and toes to count the number of signs I see each week.

Places that happily allowed concealed carry for the previous 20 years ("out of sight, out of mind"), got nervous about the idea of openly carried firearms, then realized they simply didn't want armed people in their establishments and responded with properly posting against both open and concealed carry.

The article may right in that passing the law didn't result in a lot of police drama, but it certainly has affected the daily life of most all licensees in a negative way.
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Re: Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Postby eye95 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:18 am

In time, they'll figure out what most other States already know, that OC is no big deal and the signs will become fewer. The problem arose because of the foolishness of some OC advocates in Texas, not because of OC itself. Anyway, OC in Texas is still not the exercise of the Right, since you have to have a license to carry in that fashion. At least in Ohio, despite some infringements, OC represents the Right because no license is required.

On the 7th Circuit case: There is another case in the courts right now in which the appeals court took the exact opposite view. So the SCOTUS will have no option but to hear those two conflicting cases. Maybe they didn't hear the first case in anticipation of the second. Let two courts come to opposing conclusions, then settle both with one decision.
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Re: Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Postby Tru-Heathen » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:04 am

M-Quigley wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:After looking around, I would bet that M-Q is referring to "Friedman v. City of Highland Park, Illinois" from the 7th Circuit.


Yes, that was the one. I couldn't believe it when I read it. I mean, forget the issue of guns for a second. To let any law stand based on that decision was just mind boggling. :(
How far do you extend that line of reasoning? Some area has a terrorist incident like in the movie "The Siege" and starts putting Muslims in internment camps in the interest of public safety? It might make some people feel safer.

When someone mentioned to me once about how uneasy they felt when they saw a person OC, I tried to convince him logically that they didn't need to automatically be afraid about it. He wasn't interested in logic, it just didn't feel right, seeing that gun on their hip the whole time. (or has Mas Ayoob called it once, "upsetting the horses") He was okay with CCW, so for some people ignorance truly is bliss.

Another downside to reading the decision, was for some reason that stupid sappy song that I hated in the seventies popped into my head, the one that goes, "Feelings, nothing more than feelings, ...." :evil:


Ayoob may have said that; but he was paraphrasing this quote comment on "other people's sex lives".
""IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU DO IN THE BEDROOM AS LONG AS YOU DON'T DO IT IN THE STREET AND FRIGHTEN THE HORSES." - MRS. PATRICK CAMPBELL." 8)

My apologies for the caps,it was cut & paste and I've no time today to fix it.
A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
But have his weapons to hand:
He knows not when he may need a spear,
Or what menace meet on the road.

- Verse 38 from the Havamal, the Wisdom of Odin.
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Re: Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Postby M-Quigley » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:19 pm

Tru-Heathen wrote:Ayoob may have said that; but he was paraphrasing this quote comment on "other people's sex lives".
""IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU DO IN THE BEDROOM AS LONG AS YOU DON'T DO IT IN THE STREET AND FRIGHTEN THE HORSES." - MRS. PATRICK CAMPBELL." 8)

My apologies for the caps,it was cut & paste and I've no time today to fix it.


Yes you're not, I was working from memory from years ago and forgot that part.

The above quote reminds me of a joke but I don't know if I'm allowed to post it here (or anywhere else on the site either) :)
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Re: Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Postby M-Quigley » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:33 pm

BobK wrote:I wish Open Carry had never passed here (in Texas).

It was like coming to heaven carrying here for the first 5 years I lived here, compared to carrying in Ohio. In five years, I could count on my fingers the number of times I encountered an establishment properly posting a sign banning guns (aka 3.06 sign). Signage was very, very rare.

Since Jan 1st, I see properly posted signs banning firearms springing up all over the place. It affects my personal life as multiple places that I encounter on a daily or weekly basis are now posted. I no longer have enough fingers and toes to count the number of signs I see each week.

Places that happily allowed concealed carry for the previous 20 years ("out of sight, out of mind"), got nervous about the idea of openly carried firearms, then realized they simply didn't want armed people in their establishments and responded with properly posting against both open and concealed carry.

The article may right in that passing the law didn't result in a lot of police drama, but it certainly has affected the daily life of most all licensees in a negative way.


Yesterday my wife was talking to a relative of hers in Texas, and I took the opportunity to ask him what he thought of the new OC carry law, and has it affected him or not. I can't repeat the language here :shock: but he wasn't happy about it. It mad me sorry I asked him. He personally didn't have a problem with it, just that the places that seem to be putting up signs prohibiting both in response to it. :( He did eventually convince one place that he does a lot of business with to modify their position and not prohibit CCW, Perhaps as time goes by things will get better.
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Re: Oh, the humanity: OC in Texas

Postby schmieg » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:03 pm

eye95 wrote:In time, they'll figure out what most other States already know, that OC is no big deal and the signs will become fewer. The problem arose because of the foolishness of some OC advocates in Texas, not because of OC itself. Anyway, OC in Texas is still not the exercise of the Right, since you have to have a license to carry in that fashion. At least in Ohio, despite some infringements, OC represents the Right because no license is required.

On the 7th Circuit case: There is another case in the courts right now in which the appeals court took the exact opposite view. So the SCOTUS will have no option but to hear those two conflicting cases. Maybe they didn't hear the first case in anticipation of the second. Let two courts come to opposing conclusions, then settle both with one decision.

Conflict between the circuits is a reason for granting certiorari, but not a guarantee that it will be granted.
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