Lock 3 Akron posted

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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Lock 3 Akron posted

Postby hairtrigger » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:00 pm

This park has been posted for a long time. It is clearly posted at every entrance.
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Re: Lock 3 Akron posted

Postby djthomas » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:37 pm

Interesting. So I think the only sign that is really valid is the no skateboarding sign. From what I can tell Lock 3 is not private property, so the no guns sign is out (though it might apply to certain buildings). It is also specifically not against the ORC to smoke outside of a building, so claiming that smoking is prohibited under the Ohio smoking ban is flat wrong too.

IIRC there is a "park" in downtown Columbus that is actually privately owned and they've got signs at every entrance as well. Perhaps a similar arrangement is going on here, although the fact that skateboarding is prohibited by the service director makes me think it's definitely a public park.
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Re: Lock 3 Akron posted

Postby JediSkipdogg » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:55 pm

According to the Summit County Auditor's web page it's owned by the City of Akron.
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Re: Lock 3 Akron posted

Postby Werz » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:00 am

JediSkipdogg wrote:According to the Summit County Auditor's web page it's owned by the City of Akron.

Yes, I noticed that earlier. I just wasn't sure about the signs. Is anyone doing compliance letters?
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Re: Lock 3 Akron posted

Postby xracer » Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:40 am

Thanks, just posted this last week but didn't have the photo...
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Re: Lock 3 Akron posted

Postby Werz » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:15 am

xracer wrote:Thanks, just posted this last week but didn't have the photo...

The image is appreciated. I was fairly sure that Lock 3 Park had gunbuster signs, but I wasn't certain, and I could not remember how they read.

These signs are the ones which beg for a dialogue with city officials. They start out with "hedge words": "Unless otherwise authorized by law, pursuant to the Ohio Revised Code ..." The city officials can then say, "Oh, if you have a concealed handgun license, then you are otherwise authorized by law!" That's when an open carry event may be necessary to test their compliance with R.C. 9.68. Somebody needs to send an email to city officials to tie down their position on this issue.
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Re: Lock 3 Akron posted

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:04 am

I just sent the following to the email address on their web site at http://www.lock3live.com/ to see what kind of response I might get:

I was wondering if the "no guns" signs and policy at Lock3 are in violation of Ohio Revised Code 9.68.

Could you please let me know?

Thanks!

-"MWSY"
December 13, 2014


I'll follow up with city council if needed.
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Re: Lock 3 Akron posted

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:34 pm

No response to my email so I gave them a call today.

The park manager claims that, according to their law director, they are a "venue" which is the same as a "building". :?

The manager also pointed out that they have a liquor license and that "...you can't carry a gun here, just like you can't carry a gun into a bar."

She seemed a bit bewildered when I explained that our 'Restaurant Carry' law applied to bars AND her open-air "venue".

I told her I would take up the issue with their law director regarding "venue" versus "building".

Before doing so, I thought I would check R.C. 2923.121. When I did, I experienced some confusion in reading 2923.121(A):

(A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming beer or intoxicating liquor in a premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.


I see two possible meanings of this sentence, depending on how you separate the clauses.

This one is okay:

(A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming beer or intoxicating liquor in a premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.

This one, not so much:

(A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming beer or intoxicating liquor in a premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.

Regarding an OPEN CARRIER without a CHL, the first interpretation suggests that someone must be consuming alcohol in an open-air arena before that arena is off-limits to the unlicensed OC'er.

The second interpretation suggests that an open-air arena is off-limits to the unlicensed carrier even if alcohol is NOT being consumed by someone in the arena.

Any thoughts?
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Re: Lock 3 Akron posted

Postby djthomas » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:43 pm

Hmm .. I wonder what private entity is in perpetual lease of the park to be allowed to post ... I did a quick search of liquor permits assigned to South Main St in Akron and didn't come up with any.
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Re: Lock 3 Akron posted

Postby soberbiker » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:10 pm

What about section (B) (1) (E)??? It specifically exempts ccw as long as one isn't drinking.
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Re: Lock 3 Akron posted

Postby catfish86 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:41 pm

When I frequented downtown Akron I noticed that several municipal run parking garages were posted. At the courthouse I asked a deputy at the metal detector if someone with a concealed weapon permit storing there pistol in a trunk would be a violation, he shrugged and didn't answer. My point being that Akron and Summit County are less than respectful of concealed carry and firearms laws that limit their authority.
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Re: Lock 3 Akron posted

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:50 am

djthomas wrote:Hmm .. I wonder what private entity is in perpetual lease of the park to be allowed to post ... I did a quick search of liquor permits assigned to South Main St in Akron and didn't come up with any.


No intermediate entity. Straight up Akron owned and managed.

The D permit is probably issued to city hall.
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Re: Lock 3 Akron posted

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:52 am

soberbiker wrote:What about section (B) (1) (E)??? It specifically exempts ccw as long as one isn't drinking.


THAT'S the part that that made the manager (Tish) seem bewildered. I didn't discuss specific sections of the law with her.
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Re: Lock 3 Akron posted

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:53 am

catfish86 wrote:When I frequented downtown Akron I noticed that several municipal run parking garages were posted. At the courthouse I asked a deputy at the metal detector if someone with a concealed weapon permit storing there pistol in a trunk would be a violation, he shrugged and didn't answer. My point being that Akron and Summit County are less than respectful of concealed carry and firearms laws that limit their authority.


Can you give me more info about those garages? :twisted:
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Re: Lock 3 Akron posted

Postby catfish86 » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:54 am

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
catfish86 wrote:When I frequented downtown Akron I noticed that several municipal run parking garages were posted. At the courthouse I asked a deputy at the metal detector if someone with a concealed weapon permit storing there pistol in a trunk would be a violation, he shrugged and didn't answer. My point being that Akron and Summit County are less than respectful of concealed carry and firearms laws that limit their authority.


Can you give me more info about those garages? :twisted:


Haven't been up there in a while, but the Summit County parking garage across High Street from the Courthouse, the parking garages under FirstMerit Bank/PNC are municipal owned, run by a contractor.
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