9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
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- BobK
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9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
This is a long video by a ER/OR doc discussing his experiences with gunshot wounds. A few gory photos!
I think I can honestly say I've never watched a video this long that was linked on a gun forum. Usually, I'll watch a minute or two and click somewhere else -- short attention span.
This one was pretty interesting and kept me engaged for the full 34 minutes!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think I can honestly say I've never watched a video this long that was linked on a gun forum. Usually, I'll watch a minute or two and click somewhere else -- short attention span.
This one was pretty interesting and kept me engaged for the full 34 minutes!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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- SigMan
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Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
I watched the entire video, pretty interesting. Thanks for posting.
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- CCIman
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Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
That's a good lecture.
'CAN' does not equal "SHOULD'.
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Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
I am not familiar with gunshot wounds. However, I have seen a myriad of stabbing, cutting, slashing wounds. The bigger the slicing instrument, the more damage inflicted.
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Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
Only makes me want a rifle in a fight. I didn't see much on the degrees of inflicted injury of the 9 to the 45. Just handgun to rifle.\\
9mm suites my needs just fine. Now lets get loaded definition changed so I can carry my AR and some mags.
9mm suites my needs just fine. Now lets get loaded definition changed so I can carry my AR and some mags.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOxXpNBdrVE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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- brian0918
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Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
I'm surprised at how little force a handgun bullet has when hitting you - he said for 9mm it's like catching a 10lb weight that was dropped only half an inch. So much for "stopping power".
- gmhiggins
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Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
The name "stopping power" is a misnomer anyhow. Bullets available to civilians won't "knock you down" - the knock down is an effect from the wound itself (vital organ, CNS) or a mental trigger. People hit by bullets in real life don't get "thrown back". The round penetrates the skin, organs, some bones (others it can and will ricochet) and blood vessels.brian0918 wrote:I'm surprised at how little force a handgun bullet has when hitting you - he said for 9mm it's like catching a 10lb weight that was dropped only half an inch. So much for "stopping power".
- CCIman
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Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
oversimplification ... he is just implying that what you see in movies has "fantasticized" what happens in reality. On the other hand we all already knew this: based on Newton's laws the impact of the bullet hits nearly as hard as the recoil we feel when we fire the gun- only it is concentrated over a much smaller area, with a high speed projectile.
Amazing how or mental visualizations or reality are shaped by hollywood. So much for John Woo movies, or the Terminator being blown through a glass window.
The concept of the handgun is virtually shaped by entertainment media. As a defensive tool, I have more "stopping power" and "knock down" potential with my (fist maybe), ball bat, or hammer than with my 9mm. I can hit you anywhere on your body with my hammer (your thumb, kneecap, your noggin, or your shin) and basically incapacitate you faster than shooting you with my Glock once or twice in the chest. That is reality. Headshots or spinal cord shots are a different (gray) matter.
The worth of the handgun:
psychological deterrence
killing tool- accept that it can take time unless the shot is head/neck, or spine shot
opponent is armed, or stronger, or far away
Amazing how or mental visualizations or reality are shaped by hollywood. So much for John Woo movies, or the Terminator being blown through a glass window.
The concept of the handgun is virtually shaped by entertainment media. As a defensive tool, I have more "stopping power" and "knock down" potential with my (fist maybe), ball bat, or hammer than with my 9mm. I can hit you anywhere on your body with my hammer (your thumb, kneecap, your noggin, or your shin) and basically incapacitate you faster than shooting you with my Glock once or twice in the chest. That is reality. Headshots or spinal cord shots are a different (gray) matter.
The worth of the handgun:
psychological deterrence
killing tool- accept that it can take time unless the shot is head/neck, or spine shot
opponent is armed, or stronger, or far away
brian0918 wrote:I'm surprised at how little force a handgun bullet has when hitting you - he said for 9mm it's like catching a 10lb weight that was dropped only half an inch. So much for "stopping power".
'CAN' does not equal "SHOULD'.
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Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
Well I saw the Lone Ranger shoot someone in the stomach once and the BG was standing on this big 20ft. boulder and he fell forward onto the ground....gmhiggins wrote:The name "stopping power" is a misnomer anyhow. Bullets available to civilians won't "knock you down" - the knock down is an effect from the wound itself (vital organ, CNS) or a mental trigger. People hit by bullets in real life don't get "thrown back". The round penetrates the skin, organs, some bones (others it can and will ricochet) and blood vessels.brian0918 wrote:I'm surprised at how little force a handgun bullet has when hitting you - he said for 9mm it's like catching a 10lb weight that was dropped only half an inch. So much for "stopping power".
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- TSiWRX
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Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
^ That dates you, you know, Carmen?
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brian0918, it's been a while since I viewed that presentation, but IIRC, much of the information was derived from these two sources:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
^ That's a link to the FBI "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness" paper.
and
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defen ... /index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The "Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo" compilation post, which took a lot from DocGKR's posts on the subject. Dr. Roberts is a vetted Industry Professional in the M4Carbine.net community.
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brian0918, it's been a while since I viewed that presentation, but IIRC, much of the information was derived from these two sources:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
^ That's a link to the FBI "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness" paper.
and
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defen ... /index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The "Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo" compilation post, which took a lot from DocGKR's posts on the subject. Dr. Roberts is a vetted Industry Professional in the M4Carbine.net community.
Allen - Shaker Heights, Ohio
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Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
Always accompanied by the obligatory Wilhelm Scream of pain/suffering/death.
Wilhelm scream
Then followed by scenes where the bullet must be cut out, once it is cut out, then the victim survives. Even in the terminator2, they wasted time digging bullets out of Arnold's back.
In real life, finding the bullet is part of looking for associated tissue damage, repair and controlling bleeding, along the bullet path. You can cause alot more damage digging around just looking for the bullet - Which is how President Garfield died: ultimately of infection and sepsis from all those bare physician fingers poking around in his wounds looking for the projectile.
Wilhelm scream
Then followed by scenes where the bullet must be cut out, once it is cut out, then the victim survives. Even in the terminator2, they wasted time digging bullets out of Arnold's back.
In real life, finding the bullet is part of looking for associated tissue damage, repair and controlling bleeding, along the bullet path. You can cause alot more damage digging around just looking for the bullet - Which is how President Garfield died: ultimately of infection and sepsis from all those bare physician fingers poking around in his wounds looking for the projectile.
'CAN' does not equal "SHOULD'.
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Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
^ Awesome!!!!! I didn't know about that scream!!!
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Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
And as I have always viewed it, a means to get to your rifle.The worth of the handgun:
psychological deterrence
killing tool- accept that it can take time unless the shot is head/neck, or spine shot
opponent is armed, or stronger, or far away
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Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
Very interesting video, thanks!
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- parbreaker
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Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds
Good video.
To me I think the most important thing it should reinforce is that a handgun, even a primary carry handgun, is only a stopgap measure until you can either get out of the conflict or get to a proper weapon.
There's a reason many of us keep loaded rifles and shotguns even though we always carry handguns. They're just on two different levels.
Of course... that being said I'd probably put a S&W500 up against alot of rifles in close combat effectiveness. That's far from typical though, lol. (and you've only got 5 shots compared to 30 in an AK or AR)
To me I think the most important thing it should reinforce is that a handgun, even a primary carry handgun, is only a stopgap measure until you can either get out of the conflict or get to a proper weapon.
There's a reason many of us keep loaded rifles and shotguns even though we always carry handguns. They're just on two different levels.
Of course... that being said I'd probably put a S&W500 up against alot of rifles in close combat effectiveness. That's far from typical though, lol. (and you've only got 5 shots compared to 30 in an AK or AR)
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