9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

This section is dedicated to all issues relating to training and tactics. Commercial advertisements and solicitation for your own classes are not
permitted.

Moderators: Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

User avatar
BobK
Posts: 15602
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:26 pm
Location: Houston TX (formerly Franklin County)

9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

Post by BobK »

This is a long video by a ER/OR doc discussing his experiences with gunshot wounds. A few gory photos!

I think I can honestly say I've never watched a video this long that was linked on a gun forum. Usually, I'll watch a minute or two and click somewhere else -- short attention span.

This one was pretty interesting and kept me engaged for the full 34 minutes!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am a: NRA Life Member, Texas State Rifle Association Life Member, Texas Firearms Coalition Gold member, OFCC Patron Member, former JFPO member (pre-SAF).

This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
More Obamination. Idiots. Can't we find an electable (R) for 2016?
User avatar
SigMan
Posts: 322
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 4:52 pm
Location: Darke Co.

Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

Post by SigMan »

I watched the entire video, pretty interesting. Thanks for posting.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure. - THOMAS JEFFERSON, letter to William Stephens Smith, November 13, 1787.

You can have Freedom or Free things but not both, choose one!
User avatar
CCIman
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

Post by CCIman »

That's a good lecture.
'CAN' does not equal "SHOULD'.
Tweed Ring
Posts: 17812
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:15 am

Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

Post by Tweed Ring »

I am not familiar with gunshot wounds. However, I have seen a myriad of stabbing, cutting, slashing wounds. The bigger the slicing instrument, the more damage inflicted.
pleasantguywhopacks
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 16747
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 2:20 pm
Location: Whitehouse, OH

Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

Post by pleasantguywhopacks »

Only makes me want a rifle in a fight. I didn't see much on the degrees of inflicted injury of the 9 to the 45. Just handgun to rifle.\\

9mm suites my needs just fine. Now lets get loaded definition changed so I can carry my AR and some mags.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOxXpNBdrVE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
Life Member NRA
User avatar
brian0918
Posts: 690
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:01 am
Location: Summit County, OH
Contact:

Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

Post by brian0918 »

I'm surprised at how little force a handgun bullet has when hitting you - he said for 9mm it's like catching a 10lb weight that was dropped only half an inch. So much for "stopping power".
User avatar
gmhiggins
Posts: 1748
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:28 am
Location: Elyria, OH

Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

Post by gmhiggins »

brian0918 wrote:I'm surprised at how little force a handgun bullet has when hitting you - he said for 9mm it's like catching a 10lb weight that was dropped only half an inch. So much for "stopping power".
The name "stopping power" is a misnomer anyhow. Bullets available to civilians won't "knock you down" - the knock down is an effect from the wound itself (vital organ, CNS) or a mental trigger. People hit by bullets in real life don't get "thrown back". The round penetrates the skin, organs, some bones (others it can and will ricochet) and blood vessels.
User avatar
CCIman
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

Post by CCIman »

oversimplification ... he is just implying that what you see in movies has "fantasticized" what happens in reality. On the other hand we all already knew this: based on Newton's laws the impact of the bullet hits nearly as hard as the recoil we feel when we fire the gun- only it is concentrated over a much smaller area, with a high speed projectile.

Amazing how or mental visualizations or reality are shaped by hollywood. So much for John Woo movies, or the Terminator being blown through a glass window.

The concept of the handgun is virtually shaped by entertainment media. As a defensive tool, I have more "stopping power" and "knock down" potential with my (fist maybe), ball bat, or hammer than with my 9mm. I can hit you anywhere on your body with my hammer (your thumb, kneecap, your noggin, or your shin) and basically incapacitate you faster than shooting you with my Glock once or twice in the chest. That is reality. Headshots or spinal cord shots are a different (gray) matter.

The worth of the handgun:
psychological deterrence
killing tool- accept that it can take time unless the shot is head/neck, or spine shot
opponent is armed, or stronger, or far away


brian0918 wrote:I'm surprised at how little force a handgun bullet has when hitting you - he said for 9mm it's like catching a 10lb weight that was dropped only half an inch. So much for "stopping power".
'CAN' does not equal "SHOULD'.
carmen fovozzo
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 19033
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:08 am
Location: NEO

Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

Post by carmen fovozzo »

gmhiggins wrote:
brian0918 wrote:I'm surprised at how little force a handgun bullet has when hitting you - he said for 9mm it's like catching a 10lb weight that was dropped only half an inch. So much for "stopping power".
The name "stopping power" is a misnomer anyhow. Bullets available to civilians won't "knock you down" - the knock down is an effect from the wound itself (vital organ, CNS) or a mental trigger. People hit by bullets in real life don't get "thrown back". The round penetrates the skin, organs, some bones (others it can and will ricochet) and blood vessels.
Well I saw the Lone Ranger shoot someone in the stomach once and the BG was standing on this big 20ft. boulder and he fell forward onto the ground.... :wink:
Life is full of God given coincidences..
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
Thanks for shopping at Charmin Carmens
User avatar
TSiWRX
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 6676
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:33 pm
Location: Cleveland/Shaker Heights

Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

Post by TSiWRX »

^ That dates you, you know, Carmen? :lol: :P :lol:


-----


brian0918, it's been a while since I viewed that presentation, but IIRC, much of the information was derived from these two sources:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

^ That's a link to the FBI "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness" paper.

and

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defen ... /index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The "Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo" compilation post, which took a lot from DocGKR's posts on the subject. Dr. Roberts is a vetted Industry Professional in the M4Carbine.net community.
Allen - Shaker Heights, Ohio
User avatar
CCIman
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

Post by CCIman »

Always accompanied by the obligatory Wilhelm Scream of pain/suffering/death.

Wilhelm scream

Then followed by scenes where the bullet must be cut out, once it is cut out, then the victim survives. Even in the terminator2, they wasted time digging bullets out of Arnold's back.

In real life, finding the bullet is part of looking for associated tissue damage, repair and controlling bleeding, along the bullet path. You can cause alot more damage digging around just looking for the bullet - Which is how President Garfield died: ultimately of infection and sepsis from all those bare physician fingers poking around in his wounds looking for the projectile.
'CAN' does not equal "SHOULD'.
User avatar
TSiWRX
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 6676
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:33 pm
Location: Cleveland/Shaker Heights

Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

Post by TSiWRX »

^ Awesome!!!!! I didn't know about that scream!!! :D
Allen - Shaker Heights, Ohio
User avatar
Glock23
Posts: 1319
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:44 pm
Location: Canton OH

Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

Post by Glock23 »

The worth of the handgun:
psychological deterrence
killing tool- accept that it can take time unless the shot is head/neck, or spine shot
opponent is armed, or stronger, or far away
And as I have always viewed it, a means to get to your rifle.
Project Appleseed - IIT-II
http://www.appleseedinfo.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MG Precision Arms LTD
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MG-Preci ... 9336170645" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mike0589
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: Westerville, OH.

Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

Post by Mike0589 »

Very interesting video, thanks! 8)
S&W Sigma 40VE, hogue grip, nitesighters, ncstar green laser/light combo, polished feeding ramp, grip tape at rear of the cocking serrations for more grip, polished sear for smooth trigger pull.

Laminate stocked 1944 Tula M44, Butt stock cuff/ghetto raised cheek piece, bipod.

Ruger 10/22, 100% stock for now.
User avatar
parbreaker
Posts: 1246
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:50 pm
Location: Fairborn, OH

Re: 9mm v. 45 v. Rifle A Doctor's View of Gunshot Wounds

Post by parbreaker »

Good video.

To me I think the most important thing it should reinforce is that a handgun, even a primary carry handgun, is only a stopgap measure until you can either get out of the conflict or get to a proper weapon.

There's a reason many of us keep loaded rifles and shotguns even though we always carry handguns. They're just on two different levels.

Of course... that being said I'd probably put a S&W500 up against alot of rifles in close combat effectiveness. That's far from typical though, lol. (and you've only got 5 shots compared to 30 in an AK or AR)
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
- George Washington
Post Reply