Ordered to Ground for Openly Carrying a Firearm

[freedom_fighter777]

I have no doubt the cops were wrong. But, how did you know to record when you did? You said the date, what you were doing, etc... and 2 seconds later the cops show up.

Magic?

I saw a police car a couple hundred yards away and I knew he was going to harass me and I was right.

[Oldsarge]

(self edited)

[Morne]

I would like to remind our gentle readers that not even six months ago this same fine fellow sought a confrontation and tried to use it to make himself a prima-donna. After 8 pages of "conversation" and insulting several of the OFCC founders in a seperate thread he posted this little gem:

by freedom_fighter777 on Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:25 pm

I have come to the conclusion that this board is not for me. Unfortunately most gun owners in this country are part of a group of people called the Neoconservatives. These people despise freedom and like government. They think government is good and is necessary for our safety and security. Theses are the people that voted for John McCain. These are the people that make up the NRA (which has no problem with the BATFE, The National Firearms Act, The Gun Control Act of 1968, Firearms Owners Protection Act, The Lautenburg Amendment, and the Veteran's Disarmament Act.) If OFCC was a Progun Organization they wouldn't have a direct link to an Antigun organization like the NRA. They would support real Progun No Compromise groups like the JPFO and the GOA.

But just like a bad penny, HE'S BACK!!!

...I knew he was going to harass me...

Went looking for trouble and found some, did we? AGAIN? And you still expect everyone here to just reflexively come to your aid? My goodness, how badly damaged is your ego that you have to get "martyred" by the law to fulfill your need to be "noticed"?!?!?!

And now you want everyone to pile on for some OC walk to support widdle old you? Awwwwww, did sumwun not get enuff hugs???

Pass, thanks. After the POTUS incident, and the Cleveland MG&E thread, I think you've shown your colors well enough. At this point I don't really care what happens or which superlative you use to describe it - I'm not buying into it. In a world of internet anonymity you only have so much credibility and it burns up fast.

But hey - maybe after this post you'll proclaim, for the THIRD TIME, that this board isn't for you. Maybe third will be the charm!

Referenced (one is locked) threads for those who wish to arrive at their own conclusions about the OP:

http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26919
http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=25157

[awalker19]

I would like to remind our gentle readers that not even six months ago this same fine fellow sought a confrontation and tried to use it to make himself a prima-donna. After 8 pages of "conversation" and insulting several of the OFCC founders in a seperate thread he posted this little gem:

by freedom_fighter777 on Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:25 pm

I wasnt going to say anything but I remember that. Also if you watch his other videos that he has posted one has to wonder.

[McM]

Holy... I thought the name was familiar. I didn't realize that it was that guy.

[dan dan the XD40 man]

I guess I dont really care what his political views are. What happened to him yesterday could easily happen to any of us who OC tomorrow. His personal views dont change that fact.

[Morne]

I guess I dont really care what his political views are. What happened to him yesterday could easily happen to any of us who OC tomorrow. His personal views dont change that fact.

Dan,

I don't really care about his political views, either. I care that he said he would leave, twice before, and apparently can't keep his word on that. Men who break their word mean less to me. Maybe I'm old fashioned.

And if you notice the previous post of mine in this thread you'll see that I agree with what you are saying.

BUT...

That was before he started asking for pals to OC with. It was THAT little tidbit that rang my memory bell.

I submit to you that this chap is an attention "woman of easy virtue". This is just the latest, and most diplomatic, iteration of that.

We have NO IDEA what happened just before the camera started recording. We NEVER SAW the OP in frame. Thus, for all we know the OP was drenched in fake blood carrying a fake-kid's carcass over his shoulder. WE DON'T KNOW. We have one side of a story. That side seems to show abusive police. Fine. But the fact is that HIS SIDE is only as good as his credibility. That has been seriously degraded by his own previous posts.

I'm not saying we don't address this issue with CH. We should. Letters, phone calls, e-mails. If the powers-that-be tell us to take a hike then maybe an organized OC march to show them the error of their ways. Cool. But I'm not gonna hand out captain's bars to someone just because they got poorly treated. This ain't rule by the victim class, here.

Both myself and ArcherAce asked some basic questions. The answer was that he "knew" he'd get harassed. Setting up the po-po to look bad isn't hard to do. When someone does it we shouldn't hand out gold stars and follow them around like leaders. Leadership is harder to qualify for than that. Ask Charben.

[Michael]

I guess I dont really care what his political views are. What happened to him yesterday could easily happen to any of us who OC tomorrow. His personal views dont change that fact.

This.

Morne, while FF777's beliefs and tactics may seem radical to us, it can't be denied he's sticking his neck out for the cause of liberty. As far as I can tell, he's fighting for freedom instead of just talking about it. It takes a lot of courage to do what he's doing, and other gun owners in Cleveland - including the ones who do not possess his same level of courage - will ultimately benefit from his actions. Just the same as you and I benefit from the actions of Sam Adams and John Hancock. (No, I'm not saying he's in the same league as Adams and Hancock. Not even close. I'm just giving an example.)

Instead of being angry at FF777 - which only works against our cause - you should direct your anger toward the minority of LEO's who participate in criminal actions. It is these criminal LEOs whom we should be critical of, not folks like FF777.

[Morne]

I guess I dont really care what his political views are. What happened to him yesterday could easily happen to any of us who OC tomorrow. His personal views dont change that fact.

This.

Morne, while FF77's beliefs and tactics may seem radical to us, it can't be denied he's sticking his neck out for the cause of liberty. As far as I can tell, he's fighting for freedom instead of just talking about it. It takes a lot of courage to do what he's doing, and other gun owners in Cleveland - including the ones who do not possess his same level of courage - will ultimately benefit from his actions. Just the same as you and I benefit from the actions of Sam Adams and John Hancock. (No, I'm not saying he's even close to the same caliber as Adams and Hancock. I'm just giving an example.)

Instead of being angry at FF77 - which only works against our cause - you should direct your anger toward the minority of LEO's who participate in criminal actions. It is these criminal LEOs whom we should be critical of, not folks like FF77.

The LEO issue is PART of why I am campaigning for a pro-2A attorney general candidate. An AG on our side can do more than write a nice booklet, he can be the guy to call the CH police chief and call him on the carpet.

But you know - I'm sure that FF777 knows who the likely AG candidates are and has volunteered his (apparently ample) free time to campaign for them.

FF777 may or may not be some uber-pioneer in 2A rights. Dunno. But what he IS for sure is a guy who can't keep his word and constantly cries for attention. You wanna be his valet the next time he decides to go pick a fight with some cops? Be my guest. Frankly, I think his style is closer to what is wrong with our movement than what is right about it.

[DEFCON1]

So... I listened to the audio. I read the whole thread. The dispatchers and the rest of the department need to be trained further. The responding LEOs need to be at least reprimanded or fired. I also believe the OP's rights were violated. They do not have a clue what the laws are, much less your rights.

Chris

[Michael]

They do not have a clue what the laws are, much less your rights.

I wish the problem was simply ignorance. But I have read dozens and dozens of similar stories, and am 100% convinced the problem is not ignorance on the LEOs' part. I wish it were, since the solution would be simple. (Education.) The LEOs know the law, and know what your rights are - but they don't care. Education can't solve this problem.

[charben]

I guess I dont really care what his political views are. What happened to him yesterday could easily happen to any of us who OC tomorrow. His personal views dont change that fact.

Dan, if this happened to you, I'd be all over it! Specifically because I KNOW you are not out there intentionally seeking a confrontation.

But with Freedom Fighter, it seems to be something different. He is narcissistic in his approach. He's like the guy who open carries and spends all of his time looking around to see what kind of reactions he gets.

In every battle, there are always those guys who are chomping at the bit to "get into the fight." They are the ones yelling loudest at the chain of command saying things like "we're not doing enough" or "we're taking too long" or "c'mon! Let's just GO!" as they jump around in their endorphin-induced hyperactivity. These are the guys who would jump out from behind cover and run, guns ablazin' toward an enemy emplacement. They don't want to follow a "plan"...they just want to DO something! Sure, they are willing to stick their neck out...but they are often to first ones killed in the battle and their efforts rarely help the cause. In fact, typically, their efforts lead to a higher risk for their comrades in the overall battle.

So, I am willing to fight for everyone's 2A rights. I have demonstrated that and don't need to justify my position. But I will not follow this particular "fighter"...

[Atilla]

This type of confrontation is useful when measured. Too much OC in hostile areas can backfire--police chiefs and sheriffs are pretty tight with the atty gen as well and can lobby for stricter laws and home rule. Increased hassles can go both ways. In this case the CH police did not break the letter of the law, they did a Terry Stop, detained the man for their safety then returned his weapon. Why they did it and what they said does need some re edumacation for sure -- especially the female oskifer. I am writing the CH law director tomorrow with a link to the YouTube video.

[willbird]

Both myself and ArcherAce asked some basic questions. The answer was that he "knew" he'd get harassed. Setting up the po-po to look bad isn't hard to do. When someone does it we shouldn't hand out gold stars and follow them around like leaders. Leadership is harder to qualify for than that. Ask Charben.

We preach situational awareness all the time. Now the guy says he used it, and we lambast him for that.

Bill

[Michael]

the CH police did not break the letter of the law, they did a Terry Stop, detained the man for their safety then returned his weapon.

An LEO can only detain someone if he/she has RAS that they have committed a crime. If an LEO detains someone without RAS, the LEO has committed a crime.