Retirement Community Posted...visible only upon exit.

NERES · Post by **NERES** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:39 am

Today I visited a relative in a retirement apartment complex in Springfield. As one enters there is no posting visible, however upon exiting one sees a plastic beige sign with engraved black letters stating "All Weapons Are Strictly Prohibited On These Premises" with the usual gun circle not logo beneath the printing. Obviously, this sign is not posted conspicuously to persons entering and can only be seen by persons exiting. The other entrance is not posted. No doubt, though I do not know for sure, the weapons ban is in the lease, but does this apply to visitors?

This is an apartment complex where residents pay rent and it is not a medical facility.

My observation is that the signage neither has the proper wording nor is it located properly. My thought is on the next visit I will conceal well and proceed with my visit.

Comments?

{EDIT....Well, I didn't think this through too well. Now that I have admitted on a public forum that I know it is posted I suppose I shouldn't carry there. But maybe your comments will be of interest}

Ring · Post by **Ring** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:23 am

"Comments?"

repeat after me..... WHAT SIGN?

also personal opinion is "someone" not the mgt. posted it... since i dont think posting it in a place you rent is kosher...

Thug Hunter · Post by **Thug Hunter** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:38 am

That means you can't carry outside.

charles1198 · Post by **charles1198** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:01 am

Maybe the sign is, as Thug Hunter suggested, a warning against carrying outside the complex.

A Christian friend of mine has a sign above the door to his house that he sees when he's leaving: "You are now entering your mission field". "Don't leave home without it!" would be an appropriate CCW reminder sign.

ab8ve · Post by **ab8ve** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:30 am

I've worked in assisted living/nursing home settings for years. If the facility has a nursing staff, then it is considered a medical facility. If all it has are home health aides that come in from the outside, then it is not. Either way, I would make a comment to the management.

Timmy44221 · Post by **Timmy44221** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:35 am

ab8ve wrote:I've worked in assisted living/nursing home settings for years. If the facility has a nursing staff, then it is considered a medical facility. If all it has are home health aides that come in from the outside, then it is not. Either way, I would make a comment to the management.

Correct me if I am wrong, but medical facitilities/hospitals ect. are not prohibited by law... Only if they post... Most hospitals spend lots of money to make sure they are posted though.

ab8ve · Post by **ab8ve** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:54 am

I stand corrected. I don't know why I was thinking that but I was wrong. Only in facilities for the mentaily ill.

Post by **SeanC** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:01 pm

Yeah, the fact that there are medical personnel present is irrelevant.

As you've described the sign, I would submit that it is not "conspiuously posted." To me, conspicuousness is something that is evaluated on your initial entry to the facility (i.e. something that is inconspicuous doesn't later become conspicuous just because you've been observant to notice it later). If there's someone hiding in a bush and you don't see them for half an hour, but then later on you notice them, you would remark: "Look how inconspicuous that guy is being," not "Look how inconspicuous he was." Even though you now know the sign is there, it's inconspicuous and therefore doesn't carry the force of law. You're free to carry there unless and until they change their posting. I wouldn't say anything to management. It's our duty as CHL licensees to comply with every nuance of the CCW laws. If a property owner wants to mess around in the CCW laws, too, by posting a no guns sign, he also must comply with the specifics of the laws.

djthomas · Post by **djthomas** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:13 pm

ab8ve wrote:I stand corrected. I don't know why I was thinking that but I was wrong. Only in facilities for the mentaily ill.

Some states do prohibit carry in medical institutions but most (like Michigan) qualify it to be "hospitals." While it would cover the common sense definition of the word, you might have to dig through the respective states' statutes to see if they define hospital anywhere. Some nursing facilities I know of have some level of medical facilities on the property and they may very well have to be licensed as a hospital or something. Kind of like the Day Care licenses we have here in Ohio. There's your obvious "Little Brats Day Care" stand alone building, but there's also the kind your neighbor runs in her house. Both are licensed as day care facilities, and both are off limits in Ohio.

Moot point because the medical issue doesn't apply in Ohio, but I bring it up to explain where the confusion may come from and to caution those going to states that have weird prohibitions to make sure they fully understand what the prohibition entails. I found it amusing on a recent trip through the deep south to find that in some states you can't carry at a demonstration or protest, or in one case, within 1000' feet of one, but only after you've been informed by a LEO that there's a protest going on. There laws didn't really define what a demonstration was and since I was just passing through on the Interstate I didn't try to research it.

Cruiser · Post by **Cruiser** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:17 pm

SeanC wrote: If a property owner wants to mess around in the CCW laws, too, by posting a no guns sign, he also must comply with the specifics of the laws.

My thoughts exactly. A business that I work part time for. Farm chemicals etc. Their regional safety manager told them they had to post CPZ. This building has four retail public entries. The CPZ sign is on a picture window at least six feet from the nearest entry. I am not going to be the one to tell them just how stupid this makes them look!