Guns like Tobacco line

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catfish86
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Guns like Tobacco line

Post by catfish86 »

https://www.yahoo.com/news/thank-shooti ... 01394.html

Propaganda piece by Yahoo News. No surprise. They are floating this idea that the NRA is like the tobacco industry. Filled with half truths and whoppers, little counter viewpoint.

How many counterarguments are there against this?
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Re: Guns like Tobacco line

Post by M-Quigley »

catfish86 wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/news/thank-shooti ... 01394.html

Propaganda piece by Yahoo News. No surprise. They are floating this idea that the NRA is like the tobacco industry. Filled with half truths and whoppers, little counter viewpoint.

How many counterarguments are there against this?
There are counterpoints to each point they make, but just like the article it would take pages to list. The antis would just tune it out, as they are emotion driven, and don't actually want their opinions challenged by facts.

I think the two major differences between smoking and gun possession is

A: There is no "The right of the people to smoke shall not be infringed" is not in the BOR

B: related to A, there is very good historical reasons why the founding fathers wrote the 2nd Admendment, which sometimes get ignored,

C: I've never heard of tobacco saving anyones life, while guns have been used by people to save lifes, many times even if they're not fired. Non shooting defensive gun uses are rarely included in the statistics.

D: The biggest scientific difference is Tobacco risk is presumed by the scientific community based on use, not misuse. There is allegedly no safe way to use tobacco. The risks to owning guns however is directly related to how they are used or misused. The stat's that say that if you own a gun you are 26 times more likely to get hurt or hurt someone with it are based on everyone who possesses a gun, including people who for various reasons shouldn't be possessing a gun in the first place, and either misuse them, or allow them to be misused by others. I shot my first gun at 12, and I've owned one kind of gun or another for many decades without anyone getting hurt or killed. I am not however a drug dealer, gang banger, or someone who is ignorant about proper firearms handling, safety, and storage or security. Those group of people however help make up the statistics. They don't use guns, they misuse guns. I am not a statistical anomaly either, there are millions of gun owners out there just like me, who own a lot more guns than I do. I think however that most of the people doing the studies don't wish to study just groups of people who use guns safely, or groups that misuse them, because that might not fit with their desired conclusion that mere gun possession is inherently unsafe regardless of how used or misused. :(
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Re: Guns like Tobacco line

Post by WY_Not »

Just because it is not in the BoR does not mean that we do not have the right. The BoR contains the ones seen as so important that they must be written down to remove any doubt or confusion. We the People still retain the right to smoke or ingest what we will. Just as the right to breath is not enshrined but we still retain the right. If there is a clause or an amendment that grants the right to control or limit smoking then please point it out. The Federal government is supposed to be limited only to those powers EXPLICITLY named in the Constitution, the BoR, and the amendments. As the 10th says...

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people"
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Re: Guns like Tobacco line

Post by bignflnut »

Of course this is after Yahoo makes the propaganda case:
Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation and a conservative activist, said guns and cigarettes are a completely different story. He said people conflate these topics to demonize guns because they would like to prohibit guns or pass more regulations.

“The difference is the cigarette industry suppressed information that really affected public health because ingestion of the cigarette smoke, tar and nicotine obviously had a public health consequence to people’s bodies. People don’t eat or digest guns. People don’t eat or digest bullets,” Gottlieb told Yahoo News. “Guns don’t cause diseases. Cigarettes cause cancer. That’s a significant difference.”

He endorsed the position that cigarettes kill people when they are used properly, whereas guns, when used properly, do not kill anyone. According to Gottlieb, the gun industry — unlike the cigarette industry — has gone out of its way to explain safety and how particular guns function.

“Yes, there are innocent people who are murdered by guns. But there are also lots of innocent people who are alive today because they had a gun to defend themselves,” Gottlieb said. “They want to ignore that side of the equation.”

The Tobacco Atlas, recently published by the American Cancer Society and Vital Strategies, found that the tobacco industry is increasingly targeting emerging markets in Africa, Asia and the Middle East, where regulations aren’t as strong.

“At a broad strokes level, what both industries do is prey on vulnerability and ignorance,” Douglas said. “They manipulate the information environment to steer those who know less to actually believe in falsehoods. In other words, they traffic in fake news, and people buy it.”
So, the anti-gunners are losing the propaganda war and their plan is to tell the pro-RKBA people that they're vulnerable/ignorant.

Let's interview somebody from the American Cancer Society about guns while accusing the winning side we don't like of "fake news"!

You want to compare tobacco and guns...the founders thought well of both! Put that in your pipe, smoke it, and pass the ammo!
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Re: Guns like Tobacco line

Post by M-Quigley »

WY_Not wrote:Just because it is not in the BoR does not mean that we do not have the right. The BoR contains the ones seen as so important that they must be written down to remove any doubt or confusion. We the People still retain the right to smoke or ingest what we will. Just as the right to breath is not enshrined but we still retain the right. If there is a clause or an amendment that grants the right to control or limit smoking then please point it out. The Federal government is supposed to be limited only to those powers EXPLICITLY named in the Constitution, the BoR, and the amendments. As the 10th says...

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people"
I never said that there wasn't a right to use tobacco, only that tobacco isn't specifically mentioned in the BOR like arms is. The founding fathers probably never envisioned things like bans on tobacco, but they were personally aware of governments wanting to restricts arms and gunpowder. A threat to liberty and freedom, whether it comes from outside (like an invading country) or internal (like Athens Tenn) isn't dealt with by using tobacco.
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