Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devices

Discussion of Firearm Politics & Legislation. This forum is now strictly limited to discussions directly related to firearms.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Locked
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

AzRanger wrote:If I remember correctly the NRA was backing making bumpstocks a class 3. Trump was doing what the NRA was for. He did not BAN anything, chill out!! :roll:
Let's get straight what we are talking about...if you think this isn't a bump stock ban or that it isn't occurring by way of the Trump Administration--at the NRA's request or not.

So which of the following is incorrect or to "chill out" about?:
A) This is a bump stock ban
B) A bump stock ban is happening at the direction of Trump's DOJ/ATF
C) The NRA is the pied piper who wouldn't let Obama ban bump stocks but after Vegas, as sketchy as all of that is, the NRA wanted the Trump Administration to ban bump stocks.

I suggest you read some of the links in this thread before considering your response.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

President Donald Trump promises that he is “just a few weeks” from issuing regulations that would outlaw bump fire stocks.

“We’re knocking out bump stocks,” Trump said at a White House news conference on October 1. “We’re in the final two or three weeks, and I’ll be able to write out bump stocks.”

SNIP

Commenting on Blackstone’s Commentaries, eminent Founding Era jurist and constitutional scholar St. George Tucker put a finer point on the purpose of protecting the natural right of all people to keep and bear arms. He wrote:
This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.
Enough said.

As for President Trump, he has done many things consistent with his solemn oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution. His issuing of a regulation to shrink the scope of the Second Amendment is not one of them, however.
MOAR "Champion" WWE symbolism as Trump will be "knocking out" inanimate pieces of plastic that people use against their shoulders...#SWOON!

Image
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

We received the link to the proposed new rule that would regulate bump fire stocks from someone with intimate knowledge of the process earlier today. You can read that rule here. However, we have since been informed that the ATF has not yet published that rule in the federal register. As such it has not yet officially become law.

While there is every likelihood that this will, in fact, be their final determination, we were premature in announcing that the ATF and DoJ have changed their determination. We apologize for that error.
False start....will keep this in our pocket until the Dems want something from us, then we'll give it to them...joke's on them...we have already invested a great deal of time and energy into this, but now it's just a bargaining chip when we play "LET'S MAKE A DEAL!" (do you see the "Final Rule" date in December that is 12/00/2018? Merry Christmas.)
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
WhyNot
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
Posts: 1221
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:23 am
Location: NW Ohio

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by WhyNot »

Let the injunctions & lawsuits (that were already prepared :wink: ) begin
Acquisitions thus far:

-Slingshot
-Butter knife
-Soda straw and peas
-Sharpened pencil
-Newspaper roll
--water balloon (*diversionary*)

Yeah, I'm that good
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

KSTP has obtained a federal memo detailing the new ban on bump stocks, promised by President Donald Trump,” the Minneapolis ABC affiliate reported last Tuesday. “The memo, circulated by the Department of Justice, is being sent to law enforcement agencies and gun shops with a federal firearms license.”
Acting AG Whitaker (United States Department of Justice)

Gun owner rights advocate curiosity turned to confusion not only because the station did not post a copy of the memo, but also due to a follow-up report stating “Feds mum on bump stock ban memo obtained by KSTP.”

The station is being mum itself.

SNIP

Attorney Stephen Stamboulieh asks another, perhaps more relevant question: Who is authorized to sign off on the ban so that it can be published?

Can the “Acting” Attorney General enact new regulations?

It’s of particular significance because Senate Democrats have filed a lawsuit claiming Acting AG Matthew Whitaker is legally not qualified to serve in that capacity and a “win” for them could conceivably invalidate everything he signs, including the “bump stock ban.”

“Loretta Lynch (previous Attorney General) signed the last ATF rule and more recently, then-Attorney General Sessions signed the proposed rule for bump stocks,” Stamboulieh notes.
Something seems to be holding up the works...
Any LEO-types or FFLs see this memo?
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

MERRY CHRISTMAS GUN OWNERS!
The Trump administration moved Tuesday to officially ban bump stocks, which allow semi-automatic weapons to fire rapidly like automatic firearms, and has made them illegal to possess beginning in late March.

The devices will be banned under a federal law that prohibits machine guns, according to a senior Justice Department official.

Bump stocks became a focal point of the national gun control debate after they were used in October 2017 when a man opened fired from his Las Vegas hotel suite into a crowd at a country music concert below, killing 58 people and injuring hundreds more in the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

The regulation, which was signed by Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker on Tuesday morning, will go into effect 90 days after it is formally published in the Federal Register, which is expected to happen on Friday, the Justice Department official said.
The shaft, the shillelagh, the short end of the stick--whichever is your cup of tea, it's in the Christmas Stocking for Gun Owners, delivered by the Champion of the 2nd Amendment!
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
mrbone
Posts: 2223
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:50 pm

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by mrbone »

JustaShooter wrote:
propertymanager wrote:We just had 8 years of leftist rule and even the Obama disaster wasn't as damaging to the 2nd Amendment as Trump. Why vote in Republicans when they are worse than the Dems???
I'm sorry, what has Trump done that is more damaging to the 2A than Obama? I get he's asked the ATF to ban bump stocks but I doubt that will fly - and Obama asked them to review bumpstocks *twice*.
Obama tried but failed to ban these devices; Trump succeeded. Obama signed legislation allowing CCW in national parks and to transport firearms on Amtrak.
screwman
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 805
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:25 pm
Location: Oak Harbor

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by screwman »

Trump's been a New York liberal his whole life. Why change now?
Mike

The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration.

Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

When asked how the DOJ plans to enforce the new ban, officials said they had no broad enforcement plans and would consider cases as they come up.

"We have no plans to go door to door nor do we have the resources," a senior official told reporters. "The Department of Justice primarily relies on voluntary compliance by citizens. Most firearms owners are law-abiding citizens. We anticipate compliance with the law. Those who choose not to comply with the law we will investigate on a case-by-case basis. There is not a blanket plan here."
We can turn them all into our slaves by decree.
Law abiding until you turn them into criminals.
OATH KEEPERS MOLON LABE PLEDGE

We will never disarm. We will never surrender our military pattern, semi-automatic rifles and the full capacity magazines, parts, and ammunition that go with them. The fundamental purpose of the Second Amendment is to preserve the military power of We the People so we will have effective means to resist tyranny. Regardless of what unholy, unconstitutional filth issues from the mouths of oath breakers in “Mordor on the Potomac” [or in state office] our answer is MOLON LABE.
Would love to see demonstrations with people holding rubber bands and bump stock packaging (if not detached or attached bump stocks themselves) marching right by sheriff and police stations.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

Watch the duplicitous NRA try to ignore the fact that THEY CALLED FOR THIS!
The National Rifle Association is “disappointed” with the Trump administration’s plan to outlaw bump stocks, which allow semi-automatic weapons to fire continuously.

Spokeswoman Jennifer Baker says the Justice Department should provide amnesty for gun owners who already have the devices.

The Justice Department says the attachments will be banned beginning in late March under a law that prohibits machine guns. The new rule reverses a 2010 government decision that found bump stocks didn’t amount to machine guns.
All FFLs should hang signs against the NRA
All pro-RKBA groups should disavow the NRA
I'm emailing Midway USA
Yesterday

"In the aftermath of the evil and senseless attack in Las Vegas, the American people are looking for answers as to how future tragedies can be prevented. Unfortunately, the first response from some politicians has been to call for more gun control. Banning guns from law-abiding Americans based on the criminal act of a madman will do nothing to prevent future attacks. This is a fact that has been proven time and again in countries across the world. In Las Vegas, reports indicate that certain devices were used to modify the firearms involved. Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law. The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations. In an increasingly dangerous world, the NRA remains focused on our mission: strengthening Americans' Second Amendment freedom to defend themselves, their families and their communities. To that end, on behalf of our five million members across the country, we urge Congress to pass National Right-to-Carry reciprocity, which will allow law-abiding Americans to defend themselves and their families from acts of violence."
How stupid do they think we are to put out these statements?

Let's hope the NRA reaps what it has sown.

At least Bloomberg, Moms and the antis are on message. At least we know what they are trying to do and who they stand with. They aren't lying about their intentions and spending donations in direct opposition to the agenda the funding was intended to support.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

Garfield

The amazing lack of self awareness and hypocrisy knows no end...
Many of our military personneland law enforcement will be away from home defending freedom this holiday season. Help protect the freedom they fight for. Recruit new members to the NRA. Sign them up at NRA.org/GiftFreedom.

SNIP

Unfortunately, the very freedoms they're protecting are under siege from powerful, wealthy oligarchs who are financing a Disarm America Movement. In January, the new Congress they helped shape will introduce more disarmament bills than ever before. The sacred pillars of our heritage and way of life – our flag, our national anthem, our freedom of religious expression and our Second Amendment – are now at risk.
Of course this is only the latest in a long line of duplicity/political cowardace regarding the 2nd Amendment. The NRA calls for enforcement of current tyrannical laws that violate "shall not be infringed", they have backed mental databases (https://tinyurl.com/ybnghrv4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), stronger NICS (https://tinyurl.com/y7646hj6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), ERPOs (https://tinyurl.com/ydbzll85" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) , Gun Free Zones even at their own conventions (https://tinyurl.com/y8kbxr8n" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), to say nothing of the encouragement to enforce the 1934NFA and 1968 GCA. Aside from these obvious betrayals is the support of Romney, McCain and countless other politicians who are pro-2A. They are a K-street swamp monster.

My proposal is to contact the merchants utilizing the NRA Roundup program (https://tinyurl.com/ybz95uj5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and demand public denunciations of the NRA's betrayals, announcing indefinite withdraw from the program. Furthermore, they should be encouraged to back GOA. Yes, we need to stop funding the organizations who are partnering with the NRA. All FFLs/gun ranges should receive a letter denouncing the NRA, encouraging them to hang signs or the letter/flyer detailing the betrayals and an immediate cessation of NRA membership enrollment.

I fail to comprehend how any veteran can support the NRA.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

The NRA continues to dig the hole:
These devices came to national attention in October 2017 after the horrific attack in Las Vegas. As multiple media accounts correctly pointed to at the time, there was overwhelming legislative support for proposals that went far beyond these specific devices and some that could have potentially jeopardized all semiautomatic firearms. Rather than sit back and watch a legislative over-reaction, the NRA asked Congress to let ATF review its prior determinations on bump fire stocks.

Some have used our October 2017 statement to claim that NRA supports ATF’s final rule, but as NRA-ILA’s Executive Director Chris Cox noted only days after our statement was issued, “We don’t believe that bans have ever worked on anything.”
From the Oct 2017 statement:
Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law. The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.
Here's the NRAs actual legal brief submitted to the ATF (submitted by Chrissy as justification that they didn't ask for this):
Beyond being irrelevant, ATF’s claim that “bump - stock - type devices . . . accelerate the firearm’s cyclic firing rate . . .” is simply incorrect. These devices do not affect the rate of fire of the host firearm, which is determined by the firearm’s operating system and, to a limited extent , certain environmental factors such as the level of lubrication and cleanliness of the host firearm.
The rate of fire achievable with a particular firearm or device is irrelevant to whether or not a particular firearm is a “machinegun.” Some “machinegun” fire as slowly as 200 - 400 rounds per minute, while many common “machinegun” fire 1000 rounds per minute or more. 11 With such a broad range of firing rates, it’s apparent why Congress did not use rate of fire as a determinant factor in the definition of “machinegun.” However ATF proceeds with this rulemaking, it is important that the distinction between semiautomatic firearms and machineguns remains clear . There are tens of millions of semiautomatic firearms currently possessed by law - abiding Americans. Suddenly and retroactively banning them as “ machinegun ” under federal law would create a number of very serious constitutional, legal, and practical problems. More to the point, the statutory definition is simply not intended to stretch this far.


(SNIP to CONCLUSION)

However ATF continues with this proposed rule, it must keep in mind the limitations placed on the definition of “machinegun” y Congress. If ATF decides to reverse prior determinations regarding the classification of specific devices, then it should provide for an amnesty period for these devices and other unregistered “machinegun


But what do they leave us with?
While there can be disagreement on legislative strategy, it’s important to remember that we will soon face a hostile, anti-gun Congress led by Nancy Pelosi. It’s critical that all gun owners unite and prevent the Bloomberg-bought Congress from dismantling our Second Amendment freedom.

Even though I am a fraud and abuse you like you're a rented mule, you need the NRA! Pay US to undermine your RKBA!

The NRAs duplicity has run its course. They consider us to be mindless lemmings that will believe whatever they are saying today. To the wind with them.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

Published in the Federal Register on 12/26/2018
To take effect 03/26/2019

A federal government "shutdown" couldn't stop it...
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
mrbone
Posts: 2223
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:50 pm

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by mrbone »

A few days after this dumb ban, the NRA magazine arrived and raved about how not a single gun restriction had been passed during the Trump presidency. The magazine was probably printed before the ban so too late to fix it, but the timing couldn't have been better.

Well at least we have De Wine as governor to keep things sane in Ohio. I'm sure he wouldn't veto good laws like Kasich. /sarcasm
Brian D.
Posts: 16229
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by Brian D. »

bignflnut wrote:Published in the Federal Register on 12/26/2018
To take effect 03/26/2019

A federal government "shutdown" couldn't stop it...
Hey, it takes effect on my birthday, cool beans!

I currently believe Trump KNOWS this won't hold up in court, he's giving the liberal dogs a bone here. A bone which will blow up after they gnaw on it a while.

Somebody try to convince me my theory is wrong
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
Locked