Page 1 of 3

Cops getting gun cameras?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:45 am
by bignflnut
One real problem in many departments is knowing just what happens when an officer draws his weapon. While YouTube is full of dash camera footage of police encounters, much more take place away from the dash cam’s view. That creates a problem for investigators who are looking to find out just what happened.

Many departments are taking advantage of newer technology as a way to protect not just the public, but the officers.

For one police department in northern Arizona, that means gun cameras.

SNIP

Plus, unlike body cams, these are automatically turned on when the weapon is drawn. Officers don’t turn it on or off, which means fewer policy issues coming up regarding the cameras.

Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:42 am
by willbird
bignflnut wrote:
One real problem in many departments is knowing just what happens when an officer draws his weapon. While YouTube is full of dash camera footage of police encounters, much more take place away from the dash cam’s view. That creates a problem for investigators who are looking to find out just what happened.

Many departments are taking advantage of newer technology as a way to protect not just the public, but the officers.

For one police department in northern Arizona, that means gun cameras.

SNIP

Plus, unlike body cams, these are automatically turned on when the weapon is drawn. Officers don’t turn it on or off, which means fewer policy issues coming up regarding the cameras.


The dash cams seem to "malfunction" a lot...at convenient times. A rail mount camera would be pretty simple but might prevent mounting a light/laser that some may like and use.

Might show them some cops that have guns out way more than necessary...

Bill

Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:57 am
by JediSkipdogg
willbird wrote:The dash cams seem to "malfunction" a lot...at convenient times. A rail mount camera would be pretty simple but might prevent mounting a light/laser that some may like and use.

Might show them some cops that have guns out way more than necessary...

Bill


Keep in mind dash cams are in cruisers, exposed to lots of different elements and therefore take a beating. Until we went to SD cards, ours malfunctioned a lot. Now they really only malfunction if it's too cold (they have to be above a certain temp to even turn on) or too hot (it is a computer after all that can overheat.) Really the only time we have issues anymore are due to temperatures. Now, the body mic pack that goes with it, that's a whole different ball game and I'd say we replace those way too often.

Cameras on guns would work, but now you need to find someone that makes a custom holster for them. Doubt many will do that until they become more mainstream.

Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:16 pm
by dl1911
Biggest problem is it only shows from when the gun is drawn. If it's a at a low ready position, it won't show what's happening and of course nothing of what went on before it was drawn. A lot can happen leading up to an officer drawing their firearm.

Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:03 pm
by willbird
There are wide angle lenses, and cameras can be pretty tiny, smaller than most rail mount lasers probably.

Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:10 am
by JediSkipdogg
willbird wrote:There are wide angle lenses, and cameras can be pretty tiny, smaller than most rail mount lasers probably.


With power and some sort of memory? And don't say memory cards as those aren't very secure. Once you make something for LE you have to be able to stand behind the authenticity of the files. Basically double or triple the price just to make it for LE.

Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:42 am
by willbird
JediSkipdogg wrote:
willbird wrote:There are wide angle lenses, and cameras can be pretty tiny, smaller than most rail mount lasers probably.


With power and some sort of memory? And don't say memory cards as those aren't very secure. Once you make something for LE you have to be able to stand behind the authenticity of the files. Basically double or triple the price just to make it for LE.


I would think it would have a far reaching market...civilian ccw, maybe military, and LE. As far as power goes it does not need to run for day. And why not use flash memory, possibly just contain it internally with some tamper resistant screws.

They apparently have SD cards that will even appear on wifi now. I only mess with one type of SD card but marvel at how capacity goes up and price goes down.

Pen Spy Camera MiniDV $15...yup fifteen dollars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoOBq3eqK-U

Video and audio recording with it starts at 5:41. Pretty amazing in a device smaller than an AA battery (the working end of it, the other end is ballpoint pen)


Bill

Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:18 am
by JediSkipdogg
And where do you put it on the gun? Tell officer's they can't have a tactical light because they have to have a camera?

And after adding the camera, then who is going to make a holster? It's pretty easy to find a holster for a Glock 19 with a Surefire light as those two items are mainstream. But finding one that holds a Gun + Light + Camera but Safariland or someone else big is going to be pretty hard.

And generally for $15 you don't get a quality camera. Amazon gives one brand 2.3 out of 5 and 3.8 out of 5 stars saying reliability is a huge factor.

Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:22 am
by carmen fovozzo
How would a camera hold up with recoil ?

Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:14 am
by JediSkipdogg
carmen fovozzo wrote:How would a camera hold up with recoil ?


They would hold up pretty good. If they take like an SD card then one has to make sure it has a secure way to hold it or the card could pop out. But if the memory is built in, there's no reason it couldn't handle the recoil.

Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:35 am
by willbird
JediSkipdogg wrote:And where do you put it on the gun? Tell officer's they can't have a tactical light because they have to have a camera?

And after adding the camera, then who is going to make a holster? It's pretty easy to find a holster for a Glock 19 with a Surefire light as those two items are mainstream. But finding one that holds a Gun + Light + Camera but Safariland or someone else big is going to be pretty hard.

And generally for $15 you don't get a quality camera. Amazon gives one brand 2.3 out of 5 and 3.8 out of 5 stars saying reliability is a huge factor.


Yup right on the rail, yes tell them they cannot have a light or laser there. Is there some systemic problem with following rules ?? Might just be part of the responsibility included in being able to use the threat of lethal force as a way to coerce people who are not trying to kill you ;-).

Bill

Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:42 am
by willbird
JediSkipdogg wrote:
carmen fovozzo wrote:How would a camera hold up with recoil ?


They would hold up pretty good. If they take like an SD card then one has to make sure it has a secure way to hold it or the card could pop out. But if the memory is built in, there's no reason it couldn't handle the recoil.


If the camera is mounted on the frame it is not experiencing nearly as much recoil as if it were on the slide :-).

One can actually solder to the little pads on an SD card...I have done it to make an SD card holder from an adapter. But flash memory and EEPROM chips are widely avail and in use inside all kinds of devices already.

Apparently FRAM is the next new thing on the block.
https://www.adafruit.com/product/1897

EDIT: not really new at all :-)......interesting read :-).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferroelectric_RAM

Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:15 pm
by JediSkipdogg
willbird wrote:
JediSkipdogg wrote:And where do you put it on the gun? Tell officer's they can't have a tactical light because they have to have a camera?

And after adding the camera, then who is going to make a holster? It's pretty easy to find a holster for a Glock 19 with a Surefire light as those two items are mainstream. But finding one that holds a Gun + Light + Camera but Safariland or someone else big is going to be pretty hard.

And generally for $15 you don't get a quality camera. Amazon gives one brand 2.3 out of 5 and 3.8 out of 5 stars saying reliability is a huge factor.


Yup right on the rail, yes tell them they cannot have a light or laser there. Is there some systemic problem with following rules ?? Might just be part of the responsibility included in being able to use the threat of lethal force as a way to coerce people who are not trying to kill you ;-).

Bill


I'm not sure of any departments that allow lasers on guns. But quite a few do allow lights because they are much safer to use mounted to a firearm than a held in a hand. So now you recommend giving up safety to obtain video evidence?

Heck, why not just start flying drones over police at every traffic stop. They can be recorded on dash cam, body cam, gun cam, and drone cam. Then your fine tax dollars get to be spent paying someone 4 hours of work to edit one OVI arrest for public records release.

Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:15 pm
by willbird
JediSkipdogg wrote:
willbird wrote:
JediSkipdogg wrote:And where do you put it on the gun? Tell officer's they can't have a tactical light because they have to have a camera?

And after adding the camera, then who is going to make a holster? It's pretty easy to find a holster for a Glock 19 with a Surefire light as those two items are mainstream. But finding one that holds a Gun + Light + Camera but Safariland or someone else big is going to be pretty hard.

And generally for $15 you don't get a quality camera. Amazon gives one brand 2.3 out of 5 and 3.8 out of 5 stars saying reliability is a huge factor.


Yup right on the rail, yes tell them they cannot have a light or laser there. Is there some systemic problem with following rules ?? Might just be part of the responsibility included in being able to use the threat of lethal force as a way to coerce people who are not trying to kill you ;-).

Bill


I'm not sure of any departments that allow lasers on guns. But quite a few do allow lights because they are much safer to use mounted to a firearm than a held in a hand. So now you recommend giving up safety to obtain video evidence?

Heck, why not just start flying drones over police at every traffic stop. They can be recorded on dash cam, body cam, gun cam, and drone cam. Then your fine tax dollars get to be spent paying someone 4 hours of work to edit one OVI arrest for public records release.


Lots and lots of folks do not like lights on guns....there are all kinds of methods to hold lights so that if the light draws fire the bullets do not hit the torso of the person holding the light.

But overall more information about exactly happened when a cop draws their gun might be a good thing.

It is plain we do not agree, we can leave it at that and move on :-).

Bill

Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:59 am
by willbird
To be honest I am more fascinated by the tech than anything else, cell phone cameras are the real drive for this tech IMHO....and it keeps getting better and better.

Probably pretty soon there will be no trade off between light, laser, thermal imaging and night vision, it will all be integrated into one device.