Cops getting gun cameras?

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Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

Postby Chuck » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:02 am

JediSkipdogg wrote:I'm not sure of any departments that allow lasers on guns. But quite a few do allow lights because they are much safer to use mounted to a firearm than a held in a hand.


For real?

Because all the training I have personally taken, or videos I have seen, teach that holding the light in your non-gun hand is safer.
Or is it that cops don't have to worry about pointing their gun at whatever it is they want to see?
I wonder if TDI knows?
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Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

Postby Bianchi? » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:24 am

Chuck wrote:For real?

Because all the training I have personally taken, or videos I have seen, teach that holding the light in your non-gun hand is safer.
Or is it that cops don't have to worry about pointing their gun at whatever it is they want to see?
I wonder if TDI knows?


TDI doesn't really have an answer. There's pros and cons of weapon mount vs hand held. Weapon mount is easier to shoot (2 hands on the gun), but you had BETTER have night sights. With a separate flashlight, you point flashlight independent of muzzle, but you're limited to shooting one handed. On the plus side, you can hold the light behind the firearm and illuminate the sights.
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Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

Postby willbird » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:06 pm

Bianchi? wrote:
Chuck wrote:For real?

Because all the training I have personally taken, or videos I have seen, teach that holding the light in your non-gun hand is safer.
Or is it that cops don't have to worry about pointing their gun at whatever it is they want to see?
I wonder if TDI knows?


TDI doesn't really have an answer. There's pros and cons of weapon mount vs hand held. Weapon mount is easier to shoot (2 hands on the gun), but you had BETTER have night sights. With a separate flashlight, you point flashlight independent of muzzle, but you're limited to shooting one handed. On the plus side, you can hold the light behind the firearm and illuminate the sights.


I like gun mounted lights esp for in home stuff, just because it is there does not mean it is your only option, but it is always there :-)
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Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

Postby carmen fovozzo » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:15 pm

Enterested in those that were in the military how you were taught...how about military police training ?
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Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

Postby Chuck » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:28 pm

willbird wrote:I like gun mounted lights esp for in home stuff, just because it is there does not mean it is your only option, but it is always there :-)


I have neither rail lights nor lasers
I used to, but I found the laser to be unreliable and the light went against training for my situation. The only time I would need one would be clearing my own house and that would mean pointing my gun before I knew my target. I don't have qualified immunity and even if I did, I wouldn't want to point at a good guy before I knew what was what.
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Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

Postby Werz » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:24 pm

willbird wrote:Yup right on the rail, yes tell them they cannot have a light or laser there. Is there some systemic problem with following rules ?? Might just be part of the responsibility included in being able to use the threat of lethal force as a way to coerce people who are not trying to kill you ;-).

Bill

Then you should have one on every gun you carry. Fair is fair.
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Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

Postby Werz » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:50 pm

Bianchi? wrote:
Chuck wrote:For real?

Because all the training I have personally taken, or videos I have seen, teach that holding the light in your non-gun hand is safer.
Or is it that cops don't have to worry about pointing their gun at whatever it is they want to see?
I wonder if TDI knows?

TDI doesn't really have an answer. There's pros and cons of weapon mount vs hand held. Weapon mount is easier to shoot (2 hands on the gun), but you had BETTER have night sights. With a separate flashlight, you point flashlight independent of muzzle, but you're limited to shooting one handed. On the plus side, you can hold the light behind the firearm and illuminate the sights.

If the flashlight beam is on the target, you'll be able to see the outline of the sights. You need to illuminate the target, not the sights. Accepted flashlight holds are varied, and a shooter should use the one which is most comfortable and natural.
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Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

Postby willbird » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:13 pm

Werz wrote:
willbird wrote:Yup right on the rail, yes tell them they cannot have a light or laser there. Is there some systemic problem with following rules ?? Might just be part of the responsibility included in being able to use the threat of lethal force as a way to coerce people who are not trying to kill you ;-).

Bill

Then you should have one on every gun you carry. Fair is fair.


Sorry.....LEO can and do use the threat of lethal force to compel people to follow directions, I cannot do that, so it is not apples to apples, not even close.

Bill
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Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

Postby JediSkipdogg » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:20 pm

Werz wrote:Accepted flashlight holds are varied, and a shooter should use the one which is most comfortable and natural.


And that's how my department is. You want rail mounted, we will give you rail mounted lights. You want to use your non-dominant and hold the light then we allow that. Just when it comes to qualification and we do our night shooting exercises, you better be able to pass however you carry. And yes, my department range qualifications are much stricter than state. We had a newbie argue that they passed the state qualification one year but failed the extra department qualification, and we told them they had to do mandatory practice and reshoot in 30 days. They didn't understand how we could do that when they claim they passed the state without issue.

The "most comfortable" is another reason my department allows choice of 9, 40, or 45 and long slide vs standard slide. Whatever you feel most comfortable shooting you get to carry. We shouldn't force the shooter to adopt to the gun but should give them whatever they are best at handling that is available.
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Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

Postby Werz » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:04 am

willbird wrote:
Werz wrote:
willbird wrote:Yup right on the rail, yes tell them they cannot have a light or laser there. Is there some systemic problem with following rules ?? Might just be part of the responsibility included in being able to use the threat of lethal force as a way to coerce people who are not trying to kill you ;-).

Bill

Then you should have one on every gun you carry. Fair is fair.

Sorry.....LEO can and do use the threat of lethal force to compel people to follow directions, I cannot do that, so it is not apples to apples, not even close.

Oh, I was waiting for that one. How many times have we heard people in this forum say, "Don't get involved in a domestic violence situation! Let the cops handle it!"? You don't arrest people. You pay cops to arrest people, and you expect them to do so when it's appropriate. So, yeah, they use the threat of lethal force to compel compliance, and that's what you pay them to do. So if you expect to hamper their ability to do their job, and expect them to surrender reasonable safety in doing it, while you tote your gun solely for your own protection (and to hell with everyone else), sorry, but I don't buy it.
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Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

Postby Werz » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:09 am

JediSkipdogg wrote:
Werz wrote:Accepted flashlight holds are varied, and a shooter should use the one which is most comfortable and natural.


And that's how my department is. You want rail mounted, we will give you rail mounted lights. You want to use your non-dominant and hold the light then we allow that. Just when it comes to qualification and we do our night shooting exercises, you better be able to pass however you carry. And yes, my department range qualifications are much stricter than state. We had a newbie argue that they passed the state qualification one year but failed the extra department qualification, and we told them they had to do mandatory practice and reshoot in 30 days. They didn't understand how we could do that when they claim they passed the state without issue.

The "most comfortable" is another reason my department allows choice of 9, 40, or 45 and long slide vs standard slide. Whatever you feel most comfortable shooting you get to carry. We shouldn't force the shooter to adopt to the gun but should give them whatever they are best at handling that is available.

<heh> I trained and qualified with a Kimber Ultra. Everybody liked the muzzle flash during low-light training.
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Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

Postby Javelin Man » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:58 am

Werz wrote:
JediSkipdogg wrote:
Werz wrote:Accepted flashlight holds are varied, and a shooter should use the one which is most comfortable and natural.


And that's how my department is. You want rail mounted, we will give you rail mounted lights. You want to use your non-dominant and hold the light then we allow that. Just when it comes to qualification and we do our night shooting exercises, you better be able to pass however you carry. And yes, my department range qualifications are much stricter than state. We had a newbie argue that they passed the state qualification one year but failed the extra department qualification, and we told them they had to do mandatory practice and reshoot in 30 days. They didn't understand how we could do that when they claim they passed the state without issue.

The "most comfortable" is another reason my department allows choice of 9, 40, or 45 and long slide vs standard slide. Whatever you feel most comfortable shooting you get to carry. We shouldn't force the shooter to adopt to the gun but should give them whatever they are best at handling that is available.

<heh> I trained and qualified with a Kimber Ultra. Everybody liked the muzzle flash during low-light training.


You need to shoot a nice TT-30 with a Tokarev round to really illuminate the area. :shock:
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Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

Postby willbird » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:07 am

I'm uncaring whether you buy it or not :-). I'm not expecting them to surrender "reasonable safety", I'm just being open minded about them being held accountable legally and civilly when a gun comes out of the holster. Weeding out the Daniel Harless who have not gotten caught yet might be a very good thing for LE in general.

The tech is pretty much "there" for it to be unobtrusive and not an issue as far as that goes...so what is the real issue, having some accountability ?? An institutional inability to follow rules by an institution that enforces the following of rules ??

The technology is pretty much there for an on duty LE to be on camera/audio their whole shift, would that be a BAD thing ??

Bill
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Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

Postby JediSkipdogg » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:22 am

willbird wrote:The technology is pretty much there for an on duty LE to be on camera/audio their whole shift, would that be a BAD thing ??


Yes, because police like other citizens would like some privacy in their jobs. You can say don't be a police officer then, well, then you start getting a lot of the bad apples that we have now. My department has strong hiring standards and got around 150 to apply for our current test. Surrounding departments to us over the past year have only had around 25 apply. When only 25 apply, your selection is really small and the odds of getting a bad apple are much greater. And with the expense that one invests into hiring a police officer and getting them through training (generally in the area of $25-40k) you just can't throw them out on initial minor mistakes.

Many moons ago I wanted to be a police officer. Now days, no thanks. And it's not all because of the risks of the job. I think being aware of one's surroundings one can eliminate most of those risks. It's because of all the watching and hatred towards law enforcement that has shown up over the recent years. Police officers just can't be trusted to do their jobs. Anyone that asks me if they should go into law enforcement any more I tell them if they enjoy having every move they make heavily scrutinized and being watched 24/7 then sure.
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Re: Cops getting gun cameras?

Postby carmen fovozzo » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:51 am

Strong hiring practice does not always make a good officer...I know officers that didn't score high on tests but were later hired on departments that didn't give tests and became good officers over the years..

I think and this is just my opinion....Departments are losing out because there testing is to hard...you don't need to be a college grad to become a cop, you need street smarts and common sense...

They need to take a look at their hiring practices if they want more applicants...there out there.
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