4000 confiscation orders issued

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Re: 4000 confiscation orders issued

Postby JustaShooter » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:53 am

bignflnut wrote:What's the basis to "retrieve the firearm"? A database said so?

The basis is that the NICS check shows that the purchaser is a prohibited person under Federal law. Some record, whether in a database or elsewhere, showed to the agent performing the research that the person was prohibited and the sale was not permitted under Federal law.

bignflnut wrote:Is someone prosecuted at this point for an illegal purchase? Is the buyer compensated for the cancellation of the transaction?

I do not know the answers to those questions, perhaps you could do the research to satisfy your curiosity.

bignflnut wrote:Are other firearms, perhaps gained in private transactions, also up for "retrieval" on this basis? Why or why not?

If the person is under disability by Federal law, then they are prohibited from possessing firearms whether acquired in a private sale or otherwise. Whether or not firearms so acquired would be retrieved at the same time as the one in question I cannot say.

As to the rest of your post, your use of minuscule fonts that cannot be read without taking additional steps to decipher makes me disinclined to continue. Perhaps you should reconsider whatever your purpose in doing so might be, and post in a way that is clear to all.
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Re: 4000 confiscation orders issued

Postby willbird » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:56 am

bignflnut wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:I think you are misreading (or misrepresenting) this article. This has nothing to do with an updated database, and nothing to do with past NICS check results. This is simply what happens when a NICS check takes longer than 3 days, the gun store completes the sale, and the NICS check finally comes back Deny. At that point, they tell the FBI to go retrieve the firearm.

I certainly could be misunderstanding the article, it's the USA Today, so I'm not certain the authors comprehend what they're writing.

What's the basis to "retrieve the firearm"? A database said so? Is someone prosecuted at this point for an illegal purchase? Is the buyer compensated for the cancellation of the transaction? Does the selling company refund the cash/credit? Does the seller get the weapon returned (inventory replenished as "new"?) Seems complicated...but I could misunderstand the process...
Are other firearms, perhaps gained in private transactions, also up for "retrieval" on this basis? Why or why not?

We've so completely accepted the lie that guns are dangerous and therefore we have to compromise with the antis so that WE seem politically/socially reasonable (be a cool kid, come on, just do it), appealing to the power of the State to approve our RKBA instead of foundational Negative Rights. Now we have to PROVE that we're qualified to simply POSSESS a thing.

NICS is repugnant to RKBA, commerce and so much else (False idol/savior). Shall we subject due process rights to a database? Freedom of assembly? Why we continue to feed that Beast is beyond me.


Bottom line they are retrieving them because the buyer was found to be a prohibited person.

How, when, and why this was discovered is not clear from the article.

Lack of follow up on NICS denials has been an issue from day one....the govt has said "they do not have time" to do so.

There should be a Legislative fix for this but as always legislation is fraught with peril these days.

Something as simple as requiring the FBI/NICS folks to issue a written determination to the person denied within 30 days might help.

There is a "UPIN kit" that they have avail for people who get delayed a lot due to having a name in common with some person who has an extensive criminal history, that allows NICS to retain a file on the applicant containing the material they dug up that shows "this Joe Blow is not the serial bank robber Joe Blow".

If more folks who get delayed a lot got UPIN then that would free up resources for them to look into delays that truly should be looked into to meet the letter of the law.

The RKBA issues are completely valid...I do not disagree, BUT while legislation stands that requires NICS....the program should be implemented as the law is written.

They also allow "Pre Pawn" NICS checks too....so that a person who might want to pawn a gun can find out if they will pass NICS when they pay off the loan. I suppose some of the 4,000 could be pre pawn NICS ?? They pretty much establish that a prohibited person has a gun they are trying to pawn ??


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Re: 4000 confiscation orders issued

Postby bignflnut » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:33 am

JustaShooter wrote:
bignflnut wrote:What's the basis to "retrieve the firearm"? A database said so?

The basis is that the NICS check shows that the purchaser is a prohibited person under Federal law. Some record, whether in a database or elsewhere, showed to the agent performing the research that the person was prohibited and the sale was not permitted under Federal law.


See I thought Negative Rights allowed a person to simply posses items. I guess one can earn "Prohibited Person" badges, though, and their Negative Rights (you know, the ones that don't affect anyone else), like owning property, are eliminated. Trey Gowdy explains this properly in Gov Oversight Committee.

Is this like a credit score or something that I need to find a report on my file annually to make sure it's up to date or that I don't want to challenge any entries?

JustaShooter wrote:
bignflnut wrote:Is someone prosecuted at this point for an illegal purchase? Is the buyer compensated for the cancellation of the transaction?

I do not know the answers to those questions, perhaps you could do the research to satisfy your curiosity.
I can appreciate that this is none of your concern or that you have no interest in this side of the transaction, I thought it was a forum friendly question to ask of someone who claimed comprehension of the article/process. Please excuse my oversight.

JustaShooter wrote:As to the rest of your post, your use of minuscule fonts that cannot be read without taking additional steps to decipher makes me disinclined to continue. Perhaps you should reconsider whatever your purpose in doing so might be, and post in a way that is clear to all.

Oh, they're just parenthetical thoughts. Sometimes they become the focus of the response, though, so if people are inclined to decipher them, or not, isn't critical to the thrust of the point being made. Thank you for allowing me to clarify.
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Re: 4000 confiscation orders issued

Postby MacDonald » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:21 am

Bianchi? wrote:How does the FBI know who passed a background check for a firearm? Aren't NICS checks supposed to be destroyed?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/25.9



That is what I thought, too. I have asked my local FFL in the past and was told that storage of all the NICS checks would be difficult (apparently he does not know about electronic storage).
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Re: 4000 confiscation orders issued

Postby willbird » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:23 am

MacDonald wrote:
Bianchi? wrote:How does the FBI know who passed a background check for a firearm? Aren't NICS checks supposed to be destroyed?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/25.9



That is what I thought, too. I have asked my local FFL in the past and was told that storage of all the NICS checks would be difficult (apparently he does not know about electronic storage).


We could presume these are all checks where NICS went past the 3 business days without issuing a proceed or deny within that time frame. Or like the case I mentioned EVER issuing a proceed or deny. They may retain records in those cases ??

They also may have 4473 and bound books from dealers that gave up FFL and sent them in to the records people as required. That is where the 4473 from the one instance I had where they never issued proceed or deny went. I gave up my license and sent that stuff in as required.

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