Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying Down

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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby Imcrazy » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:33 pm

Mustang380gal wrote:
Imcrazy wrote:Good, those devices are dangerous I'm glad they're supporting making them harder to get... Full auto and bump stocks have no place in private hands IMO.

You do realize that the 2nd Amendment was about making sure that an out of control government could be reined in, right?


Honestly if you think there is any chance of private citizens owning firearms will limit the over-reach of government I think you underestimate the power that our centralized government wields. In 1776 sure you could get a militia together, in 2017 dat ish ain't happenin' sista....
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby JustaShooter » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:51 pm

Imcrazy wrote:You guys kill me... The second any regulation is mentioned so many people think we'll all be running muzzleloaders by next week... Banning a vanity toy isn't going to infringe on anyone's right to defend themselves from enemies foreign or domestic.


All you have to do is listen to what the liberal congress critters are saying, and take them at their word. They want to ban all guns and confiscate them. They look at these tragedies as opportunities to get something passed, hoping it is indeed the next step on a slippery slope to their ultimate goal of complete and total ban of all firearms for normal citizens.

Imcrazy wrote:Full auto or bump firing is inherently dangerous without some serious training, no further explanation needed.


Nice cop out. "They are bad because I say so, m'kay?"

I'd much prefer a substantive discourse and debate, but I guess that isn't going to happen.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby Chuck » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:55 am

That stand and fight avatar ought to read : Sit and Quit
Ain't activism fun?

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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby Mustang380gal » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:51 am

Mustang380gal wrote:
Unfortunately, we may have let the .gov go too far to rein in. I can see the majority of Americans happily turning over the Arisaka that great granddad brought back fro the Pacific.

.
Imcrazy wrote:
Mustang380gal wrote:
Imcrazy wrote:Good, those devices are dangerous I'm glad they're supporting making them harder to get... Full auto and bump stocks have no place in private hands IMO.

You do realize that the 2nd Amendment was about making sure that an out of control government could be reined in, right?


Honestly if you think there is any chance of private citizens owning firearms will limit the over-reach of government I think you underestimate the power that our centralized government wields. In 1776 sure you could get a militia together, in 2017 dat ish ain't happenin' sista....

Missed that part, didja?

We have not been using due diligence for decades, maybe even a century and a half.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby WestonDon » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:49 am

Imcrazy wrote:
Mustang380gal wrote:
Imcrazy wrote:Good, those devices are dangerous I'm glad they're supporting making them harder to get... Full auto and bump stocks have no place in private hands IMO.

You do realize that the 2nd Amendment was about making sure that an out of control government could be reined in, right?


Honestly if you think there is any chance of private citizens owning firearms will limit the over-reach of government I think you underestimate the power that our centralized government wields. In 1776 sure you could get a militia together, in 2017 dat ish ain't happenin' sista....


It is not necessary to defeat the centralized government militarily to limit governmental overreach. Having the potential available in the general population to ensure that the government cannot easily succeed in unconstitutional oppression serves to keep government oppression under control. Happens frequently. That is not to say that government oppression does not exist. It just hasn't reached the level that armed resistance is deemed necessary by the majority of the population and it probably won't as long as that potential exists.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby bignflnut » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:00 am

Imcrazy wrote: In 1776 sure you could get a militia together, in 2017 dat ish ain't happenin' sista....


The New Derry-based leader of a Pennsylvania anti-government militia group said armed militia members tried to be "neutral peacekeepers" at Saturday's violent clash in Charlottesville, Va., personally condemning the white supremacists who came looking to fight and the police who failed to prevent it.

In a Facebook Live video posted Sunday morning, Christian Yingling of the Pennsylvania Light Foot Militia said about 32 militia members who arrived at Emancipation Park early Saturday were unaffiliated with the white supremacists holding a "Unite the Right" rally there. The militia had intended to prevent clashes between the supremacists and counter-protesters who came to oppose them, he said.

SNIP

The Southern Poverty Law Center classifies the Pennsylvania Light Foot among 276 militias and 998 "active extreme antigovernment groups" as of 2015, though it noted that inclusion in their list "does not imply that the groups themselves advocate or engage in violence or other criminal activities, or are racist."


Not to support SPLC at all, simply to suggest that groups like this and Oathkeepers are indeed happenin' in 2017.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby JustaShooter » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:55 pm

JustaShooter wrote:
Imcrazy wrote:You guys kill me... The second any regulation is mentioned so many people think we'll all be running muzzleloaders by next week... Banning a vanity toy isn't going to infringe on anyone's right to defend themselves from enemies foreign or domestic.


All you have to do is listen to what the liberal congress critters are saying, and take them at their word. They want to ban all guns and confiscate them. They look at these tragedies as opportunities to get something passed, hoping it is indeed the next step on a slippery slope to their ultimate goal of complete and total ban of all firearms for normal citizens.


And just in case you missed it, they aren't just wanting to ban those "vanity toys" as you put it:

Democrats propose ban on high-capacity magazines in wake of Las Vegas attack
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -las-vegas

Dems add 3-day pistol waiting period, Tannerite regulations to House bills
http://www.guns.com/2017/10/16/dems-add ... use-bills/

Not to mention the proposed ban on bump stocks goes *way* beyond just bump stocks. In its current form, it would cover things like most improved trigger assemblies, aftermarket bolts, bolt carrier groups, firing pins, etc.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby djthomas » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:33 pm

JustaShooter wrote:And just in case you missed it, they aren't just wanting to ban those "vanity toys" as you put it:

Other than tannerite there's nothing new in any of those proposals. Like national reciprocity they get introduced just about every session and go to committee to die a quiet death.

Incidentally it's a second degree felony to mix up tannerite in Ohio and a fifth degree felony to possess or use it. Not that I'm advocating supporting federal efforts to regulate it but since nobody really cares about getting it legalized here it'd be a weird hill to die on federally.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby WY_Not » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:22 am

To possess mixed? Or even to possess unmixed? Thought it was just mixing and possession of mixed that was a problem. If still in original containers and unmixed you were good?

djthomas wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:Incidentally it's a second degree felony to mix up tannerite in Ohio and a fifth degree felony to possess or use it. Not that I'm advocating supporting federal efforts to regulate it but since nobody really cares about getting it legalized here it'd be a weird hill to die on federally.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby JustaShooter » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:06 pm

WY_Not wrote:To possess mixed? Or even to possess unmixed? Thought it was just mixing and possession of mixed that was a problem. If still in original containers and unmixed you were good?

djthomas wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:Incidentally it's a second degree felony to mix up tannerite in Ohio and a fifth degree felony to possess or use it. Not that I'm advocating supporting federal efforts to regulate it but since nobody really cares about getting it legalized here it'd be a weird hill to die on federally.

Here's the relevant section of Ohio law:

2923.17 Unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance - illegally manufacturing or processing explosives.

(A) No person shall knowingly acquire, have, carry, or use any dangerous ordnance.

(B) No person shall manufacture or process an explosive at any location in this state unless the person first has been issued a license, certificate of registration, or permit to do so from a fire official of a political subdivision of this state or from the office of the fire marshal.
...

(D) Whoever violates division (A) of this section is guilty of unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance, a felony of the fifth degree.

(E) Whoever violates division (B) of this section is guilty of illegally manufacturing or processing explosives, a felony of the second degree.


So yes, mixing the Tannerite (or other binary explosive) or possessing it are illegal (without a dangerous ordnance license). Possessing the unmixed components is not.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby Imcrazy » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:43 pm

JustaShooter wrote:
Imcrazy wrote:You guys kill me... The second any regulation is mentioned so many people think we'll all be running muzzleloaders by next week... Banning a vanity toy isn't going to infringe on anyone's right to defend themselves from enemies foreign or domestic.


All you have to do is listen to what the liberal congress critters are saying, and take them at their word. They want to ban all guns and confiscate them. They look at these tragedies as opportunities to get something passed, hoping it is indeed the next step on a slippery slope to their ultimate goal of complete and total ban of all firearms for normal citizens.

Imcrazy wrote:Full auto or bump firing is inherently dangerous without some serious training, no further explanation needed.


Nice cop out. "They are bad because I say so, m'kay?"

I'd much prefer a substantive discourse and debate, but I guess that isn't going to happen.


I understand that many democrats/liberals want total citizen disarmament but, if you can get past the old 'slippery slope' argument, I don't see how making it harder to obtain full auto or bump stocks threatens personal defense, I am beyond any fantasies that my private ownership of firearms makes me safer from government overreach, the gov't is so big now that the only box you can use to rein them in is the ballot box, if the gov't wants to 'do something' to it's citizens we won't be able to fight back with a few little guns, regardless of their rate of fire.

It ain't a cop out, there just isn't much to say, watch a video of someone shooing full-auto, it's obvious that in untrained hands they're very easy to shoot an errant shot over a berm....
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby Imcrazy » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:49 pm

Chuck wrote:That stand and fight avatar ought to read : Sit and Quit


HAHAHAHA, how about fight battles that are worth fighting, honestly Chuck I really don't appreciate the personal attack dude.... I know it's tough but, sometimes you have to be a little finer in your focus and you can't fight every little battle, running a very successful business over the past decade I've learned that those who focus on every little thing tend to missing out on bigger opportunities.... Would I love to see every restriction on my freedom to keep and bear arms repealed? Sure for ME, I am responsible and pretty darn intelligent but, we need reasonable restrictions on firearms because there are lots of idiots in the world.... Maybe an IQ test instead of a background check!
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby Imcrazy » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:51 pm

JustaShooter wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
Imcrazy wrote:You guys kill me... The second any regulation is mentioned so many people think we'll all be running muzzleloaders by next week... Banning a vanity toy isn't going to infringe on anyone's right to defend themselves from enemies foreign or domestic.


All you have to do is listen to what the liberal congress critters are saying, and take them at their word. They want to ban all guns and confiscate them. They look at these tragedies as opportunities to get something passed, hoping it is indeed the next step on a slippery slope to their ultimate goal of complete and total ban of all firearms for normal citizens.


And just in case you missed it, they aren't just wanting to ban those "vanity toys" as you put it:

Democrats propose ban on high-capacity magazines in wake of Las Vegas attack
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -las-vegas

Dems add 3-day pistol waiting period, Tannerite regulations to House bills
http://www.guns.com/2017/10/16/dems-add ... use-bills/

Not to mention the proposed ban on bump stocks goes *way* beyond just bump stocks. In its current form, it would cover things like most improved trigger assemblies, aftermarket bolts, bolt carrier groups, firing pins, etc.


They want to ban everything down to the single shot .22 my grandpa left me, doesn't mean they will get away with it, IE lets pick our battles, I don't give a flying flip about bump fire toys or exploding targets... I care about being able to own effective tools to defend myself and my family, that means semi auto pistols and rifles with 'standard capacity' magazines. IE 30 round mags for my AR and 17 round mags for my M&P pistols and as many of them and ammo to load them as I please along with being able to carry that pistol into every patch of earth within the united states... I don't care about people playing around seeing how much ammo they can waste in an hour and blowing crap up in their back yards.... Bump stocks are a 'work around' to full auto restrictions, tannerite is a work around to explosives regulations to a certain degree. Neither are legitimate defensive tools.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby JustaShooter » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:24 pm

Imcrazy wrote:...I don't give a flying flip about bump fire toys or exploding targets...
...
I don't care about people playing around seeing how much ammo they can waste in an hour and blowing crap up in their back yards.... Bump stocks are a 'work around' to full auto restrictions, tannerite is a work around to explosives regulations to a certain degree. Neither are legitimate defensive tools.


I guess there isn't much more to say.

You aren't pro-liberty, pro-freedom. I am.

You see bump stocks as dangerous and reckless (but won't say why). I don't (but would like to have that discussion).

I think Chuck nailed it. Your avatar is a lie.
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Re: Gun Rights Group: NRA’s Support of Regulation Is Laying

Postby Imcrazy » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:15 pm

JustaShooter wrote:
Imcrazy wrote:...I don't give a flying flip about bump fire toys or exploding targets...
...
I don't care about people playing around seeing how much ammo they can waste in an hour and blowing crap up in their back yards.... Bump stocks are a 'work around' to full auto restrictions, tannerite is a work around to explosives regulations to a certain degree. Neither are legitimate defensive tools.


I guess there isn't much more to say.

You aren't pro-liberty, pro-freedom. I am.

You see bump stocks as dangerous and reckless (but won't say why). I don't (but would like to have that discussion).

I think Chuck nailed it. Your avatar is a lie.


If I was allowed to swear on this forum you'd get an earful, how dare you speak of me in such drastic assumptions. I've met you in person and I though you were a better man than to speak down to me in such a manner. Pro freedom is not a blanket statement or a blank check, you should be come more educated and also be more kind to people you care to collaborate with. I am pretty much done with OFCC I'm tired of all the personal attacks and disrespect for anyone who isn't an extreme right wing all or nothing attitude..

For the record I'm about as freaking pro freedom as they come but, I'm smart enough to know what's worth fighting for, I am not a sheep for the NRA, OFCC, the GOP or any other political association, I make up my own mind based on facts and critical thinking, not paranoia and propaganda...

I don't need to have a conversation with you or anyone else on the bump stock toys, its not worth my energy, it's a silly toy not worth fighting for one way or another....
Last edited by Imcrazy on Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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