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Re: NRA Calls for ATF review of bumpfire stocks

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:51 pm
by Javelin Man
M-Quigley wrote:
Chuck wrote:Do you see?
What they are doing is banning a rapid rate of fire. And that won't be accomplished as long as there are ARs and trigger fingers.
And that is where they will stop,
Once the AR platform is banned, they'll leave us alone with what we have left


I'm confused, I guess because sarcasm is sometimes hard to tell in text, so I apologize in advance for asking this. Regarding the bolded, were you being sarcastic, was it a typo, or did you mean that exactly as written?


It was probably some sarcasm, some truth. Trouble is, everything becomes an AR whether it's an AR-15, AR12, AR10, AK47, Glock, Ruger Scout, Ruger 10/22, anything that is semiautomatic.

Re: NRA Calls for ATF review of bumpfire stocks

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:01 pm
by 3FULLMAGS+1
curmudgeon3 wrote:Glad they're not including my bayonet lug on the ban list this time around ........ comes in handy for Banzai charges and bipods.


Just give them time to get around to your bayonet lug....it wont be long, as the politicians are leaving
the door cracked w i d e open for them to ban those too.

Did ja know that that thar' scope on yer ryfle makes it much mower easier to hit yer targeet ?

I wonder if the shooter in Vagas had any scopes on any of his rifles ? Those scopes could have made it much easier to hit the people below to, so's we better ban scopes also....oh and don't forget about those iron sights.....they ain't as good as scopes but........

We all see where this might....uh ....scratch that........ will lead.

Re: NRA Calls for ATF review of bumpfire stocks

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:05 pm
by 3FULLMAGS+1
Javelin Man wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:
Chuck wrote:Do you see?
What they are doing is banning a rapid rate of fire. And that won't be accomplished as long as there are ARs and trigger fingers.
And that is where they will stop,
Once the AR platform is banned, they'll leave us alone with what we have left


I'm confused, I guess because sarcasm is sometimes hard to tell in text, so I apologize in advance for asking this. Regarding the bolded, were you being sarcastic, was it a typo, or did you mean that exactly as written?


It was probably some sarcasm, some truth. Trouble is, everything becomes an AR whether it's an AR-15, AR12, AR10, AK47, Glock, Ruger Scout, Ruger 10/22, anything that is semiautomatic.


You forgot to mention "water pistols"......I'm serious..... and if they do ban water pistols , I swear, I'm not turning mine in.

Ya know , that gives me an idea :idea:

Re: NRA Calls for ATF review of bumpfire stocks

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:01 pm
by Chuck
M-Quigley wrote:
Chuck wrote:Do you see?
What they are doing is banning a rapid rate of fire. And that won't be accomplished as long as there are ARs and trigger fingers.
And that is where they will stop,
Once the AR platform is banned, they'll leave us alone with what we have left


I'm confused, I guess because sarcasm is sometimes hard to tell in text, so I apologize in advance for asking this. Regarding the bolded, were you being sarcastic, was it a typo, or did you mean that exactly as written?


Sarcasm

Re: NRA Calls for ATF review of bumpfire stocks

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:32 pm
by steves 50de
The ''NRA'' needs to get its head out of its @ss quickly . :roll:

Re: NRA Calls for ATF review of bumpfire stocks

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:04 pm
by Imcrazy
Chuck wrote:
Imcrazy wrote: I think bump stocks should be illegal they're reckless...


Do you want this illegal too?
Why or why not?

https://youtu.be/AlnglSfDzx0


It wouldn't be allowed on any ranges I frequent because it's reckless use of a firearm....Bump stocks, bump firing, full auto are all fun and basically toys.... Let's try this approach give up the bump fire stocks in return for national reciprocity or the HPA? Some meaningful improvements for meaningless loss of toys that have no practical purpose...

Re: NRA Calls for ATF review of bumpfire stocks

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:23 pm
by schmieg
Imcrazy wrote:
Chuck wrote:
Imcrazy wrote: I think bump stocks should be illegal they're reckless...


Do you want this illegal too?
Why or why not?

https://youtu.be/AlnglSfDzx0


It wouldn't be allowed on any ranges I frequent because it's reckless use of a firearm....Bump stocks, bump firing, full auto are all fun and basically toys.... Let's try this approach give up the bump fire stocks in return for national reciprocity or the HPA? Some meaningful improvements for meaningless loss of toys that have no practical purpose...

Other than range safety, this won't accomplish anything in the long run. Bump stocks aren't rocket technology and someone that wants to use simulated automatic fire to mow down people can get access to some plywood, a saw, some screws and glue and make their own without too much trouble other than ruining a perfectly good rifle stock. So this is just feel good stuff so they can tell the sheep back home that they did something without alienating the firearms community too much. The problems will come with how the bill is written and interpreted and what gets added to it.

I believe that the NRA was attempting to head off legislation, but that gambit failed and now we have to deal with the legislative process and put pressure on the congresscritters to minimize the damage. They already have ten Republicans on board in the house with more to come and there are at least two or three Republicans in the Senate that would have voted for this without the Las Vegas incident. If they get ten more, it's a done deal.

Re: NRA Calls for ATF review of bumpfire stocks

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:27 am
by bignflnut
Chuck wrote:How is the view from the stands?
Better than on the field, I bet


The view from the stands is that there are far too many in Leadership positions in Ohio that are willing to make sacrifices on the Altar of Compromise in order to seem reasonable. Too many that call evil good and good evil. Too many who exchange the truth for a lie. Too many who take pride in deals with the devil. That soothe their conscience by telling themselves that they'll seem reasonable if they offer these sacrifices. From the stands it seems as though those on the field feel best when at the Altar of Compromise, since those are the moments they constantly refer to victoriously. Darkness often masquerades as Light in this way. The self-deception that one is accomplishing something positive, while leading people farther away from the proper goal. Cultural approval seems to be the primary motivation of many Leaders in Ohio and nationally, regardless of how depraved culture has become.

On a personal level, the view is one of trepidation when in public as there have been innumerable traps set for the gun owner. More time and energy is spent avoiding legal entanglements than overcoming criminals who would do me and my family bodily harm. It's strange to feel safer in the grocery store than on the highway or in a hospital, church, school, government building, etc. I'm told that this is what victory looks like, though. Cue Lee Greenwood.

Thank you for the inquiry.

Re: NRA Calls for ATF review of bumpfire stocks

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:21 am
by Chuck
bignflnut wrote:. That soothe their conscience by telling themselves that they'll seem reasonable if they offer these sacrifices.



What soothes your conscience? Telling yourself that by doing nothing you at least aren’t doing less than perfect?

Re: NRA Calls for ATF review of bumpfire stocks

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:44 pm
by bignflnut
Chuck wrote:
bignflnut wrote:. That soothe their conscience by telling themselves that they'll seem reasonable if they offer these sacrifices.


What soothes your conscience? Telling yourself that by doing nothing you at least aren’t doing less than perfect?


It always comes down to personal attacks, doesn't it? We start out being all cordial, eventually the knives come out and I get asked about my view from the stands and accused of having a guilty conscience. Shoot the messenger, don't engage the message. I'm your reluctant huckleberry.

I don't have a guilty conscience that needs soothed because I didn't agree to a bundle of poison pills that keep well meaning people who haven't ever sniffed the Statehouse from carrying in any number of CPZs. I don't proudly declare that victory and simultaneously fight against it. (That's called cognitive dissonance.) My thoughts have been consistent and clear: First, do no harm. Don't make deals with the devil, defeat him.

Chuck, I have failed to convince you , Schmieg and so many others that if you give them an inch they'll take 3 miles. I'm no person of note: no power or wealth to offer. You've sat in the Swamp, shared stories, broken bread. I don't know what that's like. They might be more corrupt than I can possibly fathom, I've always given you that out. I appreciate that you're willing to put in the time and effort that you do. I appreciate your service, while disagreeing with your General's tactics. You're genuine and sincere people, best I can tell. I pray you will find a constructive way to combat your cognitive dissonance. I don't think it sells to gun owners.

Re: NRA Calls for ATF review of bumpfire stocks

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:57 pm
by M-Quigley
Imcrazy wrote:
Chuck wrote:
Imcrazy wrote: I think bump stocks should be illegal they're reckless...


Do you want this illegal too?
Why or why not?

https://youtu.be/AlnglSfDzx0


It wouldn't be allowed on any ranges I frequent because it's reckless use of a firearm....Bump stocks, bump firing, full auto are all fun and basically toys.... Let's try this approach give up the bump fire stocks in return for national reciprocity or the HPA? Some meaningful improvements for meaningless loss of toys that have no practical purpose...


This approach was mentioned by some shortly after the NRA and some Republicans started talking about a bump fire stock ban. Based on what I've heard and seen from the anti gun crowd, if this is attempted by the Republicans is the Democrats will claim that the Republicans and the NRA is (I'm paraphrasing ) "holding victims of gun crime hostage in order to shove their bad legislation down the throats of the American public, and which will only lead to more gun crime." (because in their mantra, more guns in the hands of regular people only leads to more gun crime, whether you are a CHL holder or not :roll: )

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying this tactic shouldn't be attempted if a bump fire ban is inevitable anyway, just giving you a heads up on what the oppositions argument is going to be. Their opinion will be given extensive news coverage, as it has in the past. I just don't see McConnell and Ryan not caving to pressure from the news media if it is attempted. Neither of the two seem to me to be big supporters of either the national reciprocity or the HPA anyway, even before this. If they do stand fast and show some backbone, it'll only be if other Senators, congress members, and most importantly constituents let them know they should.

Re: NRA Calls for ATF review of bumpfire stocks

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:50 pm
by bignflnut
By stating that NRA believes the devices “should be subject to additional regulations,” they are not only abandoning bump-fire stocks and trigger-cranks – which is a pretty stupid move in our opinion – but they are conceding the notion that these devices, and full-auto firearms, are too dangerous for average Americans to own. LaPierre and Cox have since doubled down on the statement, saying on Sunday talk shows that

NRA supports the restrictions of the NFA, and thinks that rapid-fire devices should fall under the purview of that law.

This is really troubling, as it abandons the critical, core principle that you cannot control criminal behavior by regulating inanimate objects.

SNIP

At least we hope that the board would not have approved such a damaging policy shift.

And this is not the first time that LaPierre has shot the organization in the foot. In a speech shortly after the Columbine atrocity, LaPierre declared;

”We believe in absolutely gun-free, zero-tolerance, totally safe schools.”

A dozen years later, in response to the terror at Sandy Hook, LaPierre was singing a different tune, calling for police and armed citizens in schools, a much more sensible approach.

In 1999, testifying in a congressional hearing, LaPierre declared;

“We think it's reasonable to provide mandatory, instant criminal background checks for every sale at every gun show. No loopholes anywhere for anyone.”

SNIP

We at The Firearms Coalition feel that this was a serious faux pa on the part of LaPierre and Cox, and we see only one way for the mistake to be corrected.
The NRA Board of Directors must immediately issue a statement declaring the true position of the National Rifle Association, and that the statement from LaPierre and Cox did not accurately reflect that position.

They must make it clear that the NRA policy opposes any efforts to restrict or regulate any firearm, ammunition, or accessory under the false premise that such regulation will prevent the illegal acts of criminals and lunatics.

Political gamesmanship is one thing. Abandoning core principles as part of that gamesmanship is totally unacceptable.

Re: NRA Calls for ATF review of bumpfire stocks

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:27 pm
by schmieg
M-Quigley wrote:
Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying this tactic shouldn't be attempted if a bump fire ban is inevitable anyway, just giving you a heads up on what the oppositions argument is going to be. Their opinion will be given extensive news coverage, as it has in the past. I just don't see McConnell and Ryan not caving to pressure from the news media if it is attempted. Neither of the two seem to me to be big supporters of either the national reciprocity or the HPA anyway, even before this. If they do stand fast and show some backbone, it'll only be if other Senators, congress members, and most importantly constituents let them know they should.

They will argue that and they will fight tooth and nail to prevent anything that we would like. The question is how many Republicans will they bring over. A best case scenario is that the Republicans hold firm and nothing happens, but I kinda doubt that will be the case. National reciprocity and supressors will probably remain on the back burner for some time now. I may be pleasantly surprised, but I doubt it.

Re: NRA Calls for ATF review of bumpfire stocks

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:53 pm
by Chuck
bignflnut wrote:
Chuck wrote:
bignflnut wrote:. That soothe their conscience by telling themselves that they'll seem reasonable if they offer these sacrifices.


What soothes your conscience? Telling yourself that by doing nothing you at least aren’t doing less than perfect?


It always comes down to personal attacks, doesn't it? We start out being all cordial, eventually the knives come out and I get asked about my view from the stands and accused of having a guilty conscience. Shoot the messenger, don't engage the message. I'm your reluctant huckleberry.


Are you whining now? Or am I just misinterpreting you?
You started in on Mike for his opinion, even though I told you he plays a very small part, in setting our policy.
Then you started in on me, ignoring page after page of me telling the whole world we are standing firm on principle.

Either you can read and comprehend my posts and are building straw men that you can kick over, or you can’t read and comprehension is difficult for you.

Which is it?

Re: NRA Calls for ATF review of bumpfire stocks

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:04 pm
by Chuck
bignflnut wrote:Chuck, I have failed to convince you , Schmieg and so many others that if you give them an inch they'll take 3 miles.



How dare you? How dare you read this thread and then tell me that I need convincing ?

<personal attack deleted--M380g>

I challenge you to show anything I said in this thread that looks like I’m willing to compromise anything.

It’s one thing to refuse to help while criticizing others for their efforts, that’s just being selfish.
It is quite another to make up crap about me and act like my moral superior.

Just stick with the truth, ok?

My first post in this thread, found on page one:

Chuck wrote:Let it be known that OFCC adamantly OPPOSES additional gun regulations, period.
Email coming shortly


Follows by eight pages of me explaining why accepting a ban is the wrong thing to do