The gun control conversation after Vegas

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bignflnut
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The gun control conversation after Vegas

Post by bignflnut »

President Donald Trump vaguely referred to gun control Tuesday, however, advisers said implementing any sort of gun restricting legislation would be suicide and Trump knows it.

“Look, we have a tragedy. What happened is, in many ways, a miracle. The police department, they’ve done such an incredible job. And we’ll be talking about gun laws as time goes on,” Trump told reporters while walking to Marine One. Democratic lawmakers have been calling for gun control legislation following a shooting in Las Vegas Sunday that left at least 59 dead.

SNIP

Former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon told Axios Tuesday that gun control implemented by Trump would be “impossible” and the “the end of everything.”

Longtime Trump adviser Roger Stone agreed and said, “Base would go insane and he knows it.”
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

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"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
kcclark
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Post by kcclark »

Never heard of Caleb Keeter before but he is getting lots of press because he has changed his mind about gun control.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/nat ... 26646001/#
We actually have members of our crew with CHL licenses and legal firearms on the bus.

They were useless.

We couldn’t touch them for fear police might think that we were part of the massacre and shoot us.
Made me think about the UT tower shooting where citizens with their hunting rifles showed up and caused problems for Charles Whitman. Today's cops probably would not accept that help.
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Post by bignflnut »

Keep doesn't get you much without Bear, does it?
kcclark wrote:Made me think about the UT tower shooting where citizens with their hunting rifles showed up and caused problems for Charles Whitman. Today's cops probably would not accept that help.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Post by bignflnut »

And...it's on the shelf...
Two days after an attacker opened fire on concert goers in Las Vegas, House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wisc) announced he was shelving legislation to deregulate suppressors.

After the Vegas attacker killed at least 59 and wounded over 500, Hillary Clinton tweeted:

The crowd fled at the sound of gunshots.

Imagine the deaths if the shooter had a silencer, which the NRA wants to make easier to get.

— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) October 2, 2017
SNIP

The Chicago Tribune tweeted:

House Speaker Paul Ryan says NRA-backed bill to ease regulations on gun silencers is shelved indefinitely https://t.co/hfDb8elAl6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; pic.twitter.com/zsdMo3OOEM

— Chicago Tribune (@chicagotribune) October 3, 2017
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
WestonDon
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Post by WestonDon »

Grow a pair Paul... Or get out. You shelved legislation on account of Hillary's imagination? Really?
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Post by mdoerner »

Honestly, what is it going to take to get this legislation passed? Both parties are not doing the business of The People any longer. Is it going to take an "Open Carry" million man march or something to get the point across? Ugh....why doesn't the NRA throw Ryan under the bus already? Granted, he'll come out a "winner" in the media....but something has to be done. The Congress has literally done NOTHING legislatively.

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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Post by bignflnut »

A congressman Norman from SC sayeth:
To say that guns ought to be more regulated is just the wrong way,” he continued, “Now, what ought to be the topic of discussion is the tragedy that took place and how we can help to get (ToS VERBOTTEN 3 letter word) back into the mainstream of public life and it was absent in the killer and anyone that tries to make political hay, again, by talking about gun control, is backward in my opinion.”
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Post by bignflnut »

Starts of weak with an absolute guarantee (strong rhetoric) of nearly (capitulation of strong rhetoric)...but then adequately illuminates the darkness of the swamp...
I absolutely guarantee you nearly every single political leader and wannabe is thinking only one thought at this precise moment. How can I use this situation to my political advantage? You cannot participate in modern day politics and not think in this manner, regardless of how good and honest you might claim to be.

When you swim in the swamp, you employ the same techniques and thought processes as all the other swamp dwellers. At best it is an occupational hazard, at worst an all consuming disease. Unfortunately very few escape with their morals and dignity intact and none succeed in draining, or even changing the flow of the fetid swamp waters.

But this isn’t the purpose of this screed at all. Either we fully recognize, and are repulsed by, the nature of the swamp and those who dwell within while taking concrete and purposeful steps to distance ourselves as much as possible from all that the swamp encompasses. Or we have learned to mostly ignore it, live with it, benefit from it or directly participate in it.
This is why free people cannot be ignorant or irreligious. It's never worked in history, and the "if you can keep it" statement seems prophetic.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Post by bignflnut »

Senior congressional Republicans say they are open to considering legislation banning “bump stocks” like the shooter in Las Vegas apparently used to make semi-automatic rifles perform more like fully automatic weapons.

The comments from lawmakers including the No. 2 Senate Republican, John Cornyn of Texas, marked a surprising departure from GOP lawmakers’ general antipathy to gun regulations of any kind. But they were far from a guarantee of a path forward for the new legislation by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., especially with Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Paul Ryan making clear their priorities are elsewhere.

“If somebody can essentially convert a semi-automatic weapon by buying one of these and utilizing it and cause the kind of mayhem and mass casualties that we saw in Las Vegas, that’s something of obvious concern that we ought to explore,” Cornyn told reporters.

“I own a lot of guns and as a hunter and sportsman I think that’s our right as Americans, but I don’t understand the use of this bump stock and that’s another reason to have a hearing.”
Gingrich said, “I also think some of the technology has to be looked at … Look, if there is something that makes it easy to convert a semi-automatic into an automatic, maybe that does have to be looked at and put under the federal Firearms Act which makes it illegal to have a genuinely automatic weapon. I think this is as technology changes, sometimes we have to change the rules to catch up with those technologies.”

He added, “There is apparently a new technology, which is relatively cheap, which enables you to take a semi-automatic weapon, which is legal and convert it into an automatic weapon, which is illegal. Now it strikes me as a practical common sense thing that we ought to find some way to take that particular device and make it part of the 1934 federal gun act, which makes it illegal to have an automatic weapon. Nobody seriously argues you ought to walk around with a .50 caliber machine gun.”
Only willing to "fight" on semi-autos?...oh...ok...
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Post by bignflnut »

Law enforcement recovered 23 firearms from the 32nd-floor suite of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino, including AR-15-style rifles. They are the equivalent of the U.S. military’s standard service rifle, the M-16. One the rifles seen in an unofficial photograph features a “free floating barrel,” unlike an M-16 whose barrel is connected to the rest of the rifle.

Inside a free-floating barrel, bullets travel without interference from micro-vibrations. Conversely, a bullet fired from a fixed barrel can be thrown off its intended trajectory by these external vibrations. The difference can be as much as 50 percent more accurate.

The U.S. Army and Marine Corps have been trying to outfit their conventional infantry forces with weapons that have free-floating barrels for years. In other words, Paddock’s weapons are more accurate by design than some of the weapons the U.S. military issues out to their regular infantry service members.
:roll: :roll:
Oh, brother.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Post by WestonDon »

bignflnut wrote:
Nobody seriously argues you ought to walk around with a .50 caliber machine gun.”

I wouldn't bet on it. I don't believe I'd care to walk around with it but yeah, I'd love to have one.

I think they will probably wind up making "bump fire stocks" illegal. I view these as a novelty item. A guy with the resources of the LV shooter could just as well invest in the machine tools needed to build full auto guns.

My objection to banning "bump fire stocks", besides being ineffective regards to preventing future attacks, is that it presupposes the machine guns SHOULD be illegal. A concept I disagree with because I believe the purpose of the 2A is to ensure that We The People are not outgunned by the government. To be sure that ship has already sailed but we can at least resist making it worse.
I believe in American exceptianalism
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Post by bignflnut »

WestonDon wrote:
bignflnut wrote:
Nobody seriously argues you ought to walk around with a .50 caliber machine gun.”

I wouldn't bet on it. I don't believe I'd care to walk around with it but yeah, I'd love to have one.
That was a Newt Gingrich quote, not mine...I'd just like to mount one on a Hummer or Jeep...
But nobody axed me.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Post by M-Quigley »

kcclark wrote:Never heard of Caleb Keeter before but he is getting lots of press because he has changed his mind about gun control.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/nat ... 26646001/#
We actually have members of our crew with CHL licenses and legal firearms on the bus.

They were useless.


We couldn’t touch them for fear police might think that we were part of the massacre and shoot us.
Made me think about the UT tower shooting where citizens with their hunting rifles showed up and caused problems for Charles Whitman. Today's cops probably would not accept that help.
I had someone imply to me recently that this incident somehow shows the concealed carry reciprocity shouldn't be passed, and that concealed carry at all is useless, simply because it couldn't have stopped this attack. I told her I agreed with her that concealed handguns couldn't have stopped this guy. I then said,
"You remember that accident earlier this year down the road that killed that couple?" She said yes, and I said, "So you are in effect saying people shouldn't wear their seat belts, or that we shouldn't have air bags in cars?" After all, they didn't save that couple." After a few seconds of hesitation her reply was simply, "That's different." I asked her why that was different, and her reply was, "I don't know, it just is," and changed the subject. :roll: Was I wrong?
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Post by djthomas »

M-Quigley wrote:I had someone imply to me recently that this incident somehow shows the concealed carry reciprocity shouldn't be passed, and that concealed carry at all is useless, simply because it couldn't have stopped this attack. I told her I agreed with her that concealed handguns couldn't have stopped this guy. I then said,
"You remember that accident earlier this year down the road that killed that couple?" She said yes, and I said, "So you are in effect saying people shouldn't wear their seat belts, or that we shouldn't have air bags in cars?" After all, they didn't save that couple." After a few seconds of hesitation her reply was simply, "That's different." I asked her why that was different, and her reply was, "I don't know, it just is," and changed the subject. :roll: Was I wrong?
By that line of thinking take all the metal detectors down at these concerts and professional sporting events. As I understand it patrons going into this concert were screened but that didn't do anything to stop this guy either. In fact, the tight access control choke points may have impeded rapid evacuation and made things worse. THAT, is a very real problem.
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Re: The gun control conversation after Vegas

Post by M-Quigley »

djthomas wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:I had someone imply to me recently that this incident somehow shows the concealed carry reciprocity shouldn't be passed, and that concealed carry at all is useless, simply because it couldn't have stopped this attack. I told her I agreed with her that concealed handguns couldn't have stopped this guy. I then said,
"You remember that accident earlier this year down the road that killed that couple?" She said yes, and I said, "So you are in effect saying people shouldn't wear their seat belts, or that we shouldn't have air bags in cars?" After all, they didn't save that couple." After a few seconds of hesitation her reply was simply, "That's different." I asked her why that was different, and her reply was, "I don't know, it just is," and changed the subject. :roll: Was I wrong?
By that line of thinking take all the metal detectors down at these concerts and professional sporting events. As I understand it patrons going into this concert were screened but that didn't do anything to stop this guy either. In fact, the tight access control choke points may have impeded rapid evacuation and made things worse. THAT, is a very real problem.
Your example is a lot better than mine. I wish I'd have thought of it myself at the time.
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