LA police chief warns of apocalypse if reciprocity happens

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M-Quigley
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LA police chief warns of apocalypse if reciprocity happens

Post by M-Quigley »

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Although the op ed talks about the various states standards and how they differ from California's, the real truth is they don't want their subjects asking why they have to have a "good reason" to get a CCW permit, when other states have "shall issue. Giving that up would give up the power they have over their subjects, to only approve applications for the wealthy or politically connected. I wouldn't even be surprised there isn't some sheriff in California that has done what some on the NYC board was accused of doing, literally approving applications based on graft payments. I don't have any direct evidence of it, but the current system certainly allows that possibility. The real danger isn't to California's citizens but to a loss of some of their political power.
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Re: LA police chief warns of apocalypse if reciprocity happe

Post by WestonDon »

You've hit the nail squarely on the head there.^^^ I think we are seeing a mini version of this with the current opposition to HB142 currently in the Ohio house.
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Re: LA police chief warns of apocalypse if reciprocity happe

Post by schmieg »

Having read the editorial, I wonder if the writers have read the House Bill.
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Re: LA police chief warns of apocalypse if reciprocity happe

Post by M-Quigley »

schmieg wrote:Having read the editorial, I wonder if the writers have read the House Bill.
You're assuming they care about the truth.
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Re: LA police chief warns of apocalypse if reciprocity happe

Post by bignflnut »

In addition to jeopardizing public safety, concealed carry reciprocity would endanger the lives of law enforcement. The mere presence of more concealed weapons on California streets would make police work here much more hazardous.
Here's the logical conclusion of this argument:
Because, our citizens, under our brilliant leadership through the decades, are bloodthirsty monsters who would run wild on anyone wearing a badge. We've devolved our culture to such a point that the cops have the mindset of military occupiers who must risk life and limb (as if in a war zone) on an hourly basis. We've "educated" people into violence for subsistence. Their families are destroyed and now they're entirely dependent on us for all of their needs. Now, with no assets or resources, no generational hope or proper education, we cannot give them weapons.
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Re: LA police chief warns of apocalypse if reciprocity happe

Post by Dr. Detroit »

Here is a short excerpt from OFCC's position paper on reciprocity. It addresses the public safety issue:

Opponents of interstate reciprocity have labeled the concept “an utter disregard for public safety”(20), “absurd and dangerous”(21), and “a public health threat”(22). Nevertheless, the notion that concealed carry licensees present a danger to society is a bandwagon fallacy, a false claim advanced through the popularity and shrillness of its proponents. Peer-reviewed research by preeminent social scientists has long established the safety of licensed concealed carry (23) and repudiated claims of public endangerment. After examining hundreds (24) of peer-reviewed journal articles and government reports on gun control, the National Research Council, an affiliate of the National Academy of Sciences, concluded that concealed carry programs do not increase crime (25). In fact, concealed carry permit holders are six times less likely to be convicted of a crime than law enforcement officers themselves (26). A recent report from the Crime Prevention Research Center (a group led by John Lott, formerly a senior research scholar at the Yale Law School) noted that, “It is impossible to think of any other group in the U.S. that is anywhere near as law-abiding" (27). Nevertheless, opponents of interstate reciprocity repeat an ipse dixit that impedes reasoned discourse on the safety of concealed carry.

20. “Reckless Disregard for Safety,” New York Times, Jan. 4, 2012, sec. A.
21. “With Trump’s Victory, the NRA Takes Aim at Public Safety,” Los Angeles Times, Dec. 3, 2016.
22. David Catron, “Democrats Warn: Your Gun Is a Public Health Threat,” The American Spectator, Aug. 1, 2016, https://spectator.org/democrats-your-gu ... lth-threat" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
23. Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2016 (Crime Prevention Research Center, 2016), 10.
24. Don Kates and Gary Mauser, “Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence,” Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy 30, no. 2 (2007): 654, doi:10.2139/ssrn.998893.
25. Charles F. Wellford, John V. Pepper, and Carol V. Petrie, eds., Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review (Washington, DC: National Academies Press, 2005), 150.
26. Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2016 (Crime Prevention Research Center, 2016), 15. See also P. Stinson, J. Liederbach, and T. Freiburger, “Exit Strategy: An Exploration of Late-Stage Police Crime,” Police Quarterly 13, no. 4 (2010): 413-435, doi:10.1177/1098611110384086.
27. Ibid., 15.

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Re: LA police chief warns of apocalypse if reciprocity happe

Post by Dr. Detroit »

bignflnut wrote:
We've devolved our culture to such a point that the cops have the mindset of military occupiers . . .
After reading this sentence many times, I agree.

Thankfully, police don't usually act like military occupiers, but in terms of attitude and mindset, I agree. The "police subculture" is largely characterized by LEO's perception of themselves as separate and apart from the general society.

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Re: LA police chief warns of apocalypse if reciprocity happe

Post by Sevens »

I consider myself staunchly pro-cop (understanding fully that many here would never use a similar term to describe themselves and I'm still comfortable saying it and can happily get along with those who would not ever) and in my travels I have met -many- officers in a variety of settings and it has been my experience that OH YES some of them fit the above description, for sure, and being around them has been a not extremely comfortable experience.

Honestly... it seems to be much like MANY different groups of folks. Obviously things are different when we are talking about a group with "authority" in whatever way you might measure or define authority.
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