Much of the case turned on analysis of the Fourth Amendment, which lays out the right of the people to be secure against “unreasonable search and seizure.” The panel specifically considered whether the police officer at Scott’s door had engaged in a permissible “knock and talk” procedure. The dissent noted: “There was no talk here. This was a knock and shoot.” But in reality, the case represents an unacceptable collateral attack on the Second Amendment. To understand why, consider the testimony in the case.
Deputy Sylvester testified that Scott “flung open” the door and pointed his gun directly at his face. The plaintiffs presented evidence that when Scott opened the door and saw a man outside crouching with a gun, he immediately retreated, and his gun was at all times pointed down at his side. This next part is critical for understanding the danger of the court’s reasoning: Through the quirks of civil procedure, the court was required to evaluate the case as if the plaintiffs’ account was true.
Pay close attention, citizens of the Eleventh Circuit (that’s Alabama, Georgia, and Florida). If you exercise your constitutional right to keep and bear arms in your own home, agents of the state who show up at the wrong house and don’t announce themselves can kill you with legal impunity, even if you are retreating — and even if you point your gun at the ground.
As Slate’s Mark Joseph Stern notes in an excellent piece about the ruling, this is now the second federal court of appeals (the other being the Fourth Circuit, in an opinion I wrote about in January) that has essentially held that exercising your Second Amendment rights means diminishing your Fourth Amendment rights. In fact, that Fourth Circuit opinion was so broadly written that exercising your Second Amendment rights means that gun-owning citizens, in the words of a concurring judge, can even “face greater restriction on their concurrent exercise of other constitutional rights, like those protected by the First Amendment.”
More Judicial attacks on RKBA
Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators
-
- Volunteer
- Posts: 8135
- Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
- Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
- Contact:
More Judicial attacks on RKBA
Submitted without comment...
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
-
- OFCC Member
- Posts: 10911
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:41 pm
- Location: Mercer County, Ohio - what is yours?
- JustaShooter
- OFCC Coordinator
- Posts: 5800
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
- Location: Akron/Canton Area
Re: More Judicial attacks on RKBA
As is bignflnut's custom, it is within the quoted article. In this case, look for the underlined portion of the quote near the end of the first paragraph.Cruiser wrote:Source Link?
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
-
- Posts: 4782
- Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:06 pm
- Location: Western Ohio
Re: More Judicial attacks on RKBA
This isn't in reference to the legal aspect of this case, but tactically I would never fling or otherwise open my door to anyone without seeing or talking to them first, gun or no gun. If they do happen to be home invaders why would I want to open the door and get into a gun fight with them on equal terms?
-
- Volunteer
- Posts: 8135
- Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
- Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
- Contact:
Re: More Judicial attacks on RKBA
FYI, two of the justices that approved of this ruling were appointed by a Bush (a margin large enough to swing the outcome)
There are some facts of the case.The judges who voted to give cops a pass for the killing were Ed Carnes, Gerald Tjoflat, Frank Hull, Stanley Marcus, William Pryor, Adalberto Jordan and Julie Carnes.
They concluded, in the shooting by officers from the Lake City police, that, “No clearly established federal law gave clear and fair notice that Deputy [Richard] Sylvester’s conduct was unlawful.”
“The dissent does not cite any Supreme Court, binding 11th Circuit, or Florida Supreme Court case that would have put Deputy Sylvester on fair and clear notice that the time and manner of his approach on July 15, 2015, was illegal.”
The Rutherford Institute detailed the facts of the case: “On July 15, 2012, Deputy Richard Sylvester spotted a speeding motorcycle while on patrol in Lake County, Florida. Sylvester pursued the motorcycle in his patrol car but lost sight of it. Subsequent reports caused Sylvester to believe that the motorcyclist might be armed, was wanted by another police department, and had been spotted at a nearby apartment complex. Arriving at the complex around 1:30 a.m., Sylvester and three other deputies began knocking on doors close to where a motorcycle was parked, starting with Apartment 114, where a light was on inside. Apartment 114 was occupied by Andrew Scott and Amy Young, who were playing video games and had no connection to the motorcycle or any illegal activity.
“Assuming tactical positions surrounding the door to Apartment 114, the deputies had their guns drawn and ready to shoot. Sylvester, without announcing he was a police officer, then banged loudly and repeatedly on the door, causing a neighbor to open his door. When questioned by a deputy, the neighbor explained that the motorcycle’s owner did not live in Apartment 114. This information was not relayed to Sylvester. Unnerved by the banging at such a late hour, Andrew Scott retrieved his handgun before opening the door. When Scott saw a shadowy figure holding a gun outside his door, he retreated into his apartment only to have Sylvester immediately open fire. Sylvester fired six shots, three of which hit and killed Scott.”
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
-
- OFCC Patron Member
- Posts: 1613
- Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:29 am
- Location: Paarmaa!
Re: More Judicial attacks on RKBA
Dreaded Scott decision.
Genuine Scooter Trash
Member: NRA/OFCC/AAA/GER/AFG
Former Member: Amish Chippendales
I Am Not A Lawyer, But I Have Played One In Real Life
Member: NRA/OFCC/AAA/GER/AFG
Former Member: Amish Chippendales
I Am Not A Lawyer, But I Have Played One In Real Life