Federal Appeals Court Ruling - Maryland

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glocksmith
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Federal Appeals Court Ruling - Maryland

Post by glocksmith »

Maryland's ban on 45 kinds of assault weapons and its 10-round limit on gun magazines were upheld Tuesday by a federal appeals court in a decision that met with a strongly worded dissent. In a 10-4 ruling, the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Virginia, said the guns banned under Maryland's law aren't protected by the Second Amendment.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/butt ... es-n724106
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Re: Federal Appeals Court Ruling - Maryland

Post by WY_Not »

WTF?
"Put simply, we have no power to extend Second Amendment protections to weapons of war," Judge Robert King wrote for the court, adding that the Supreme Court's decision in District of Columbia v. Heller explicitly excluded such coverage.
Perhaps this IDIOT needs to go read some of the historical documents regarding the 2nd Amendment before spouting this kind of crap. Weapons of war are EXACTLY what the 2nd Amendment was meant to protect.
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Re: Federal Appeals Court Ruling - Maryland

Post by Javelin Man »

The ruling back in the 1930's (Miller decision?) stated that since the sawed-off shotgun was not weapon of war, the 2nd amendment didn't protect it. Exactly opposite of this Maryland ruling.
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Re: Federal Appeals Court Ruling - Maryland

Post by M-Quigley »

Sadly there are 4 SCOTUS justices that will probably agree with this (or any other anti gun) ruling. I expect the Dem's to delay a vote as long as possible, and not just for this reason. If the NRA chooses to fight this further, how long will it take to get to SCOTUS approx.?
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Re: Federal Appeals Court Ruling - Maryland

Post by bignflnut »

We Lost a Little Ground (In the News) was also discussing this...

Wynn involved again

Kolbe v Hogan
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Re: Federal Appeals Court Ruling - Maryland

Post by M-Quigley »

So a semi auto AR15 is a "weapon of war", while the Ruger mini 14 is not? What about an M1 Carbine without a bayonet lug? No different in basic design than the mini 14, but was actually once a "weapon of war" as were almost all designs of hunting guns at one time or another.

What was the first semi auto rifle or carbine in the US anyway? I thought it was the Winchester model 1910, but is there something earlier?
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Re: Federal Appeals Court Ruling - Maryland

Post by Werz »

This case will likely hinge upon the prefactory clause of the Second Amendment. In Heller, Scalia implied that it may be permissible to ban "weapons that are most useful in military service - M-16 rifles and the like," but the essential difference between the M-16 and the AR-15 is full-auto capability, which is already covered by NFA 1934, and Scalia also noted that the militia was expected to bring weapons "in common use at the time," as opposed to "dangerous and unusual weapons." District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 627 (2008). The Fourth Circuit may be able to argue that an M-16 is a "dangerous and unusual weapon," but it is not the same as the AR-15, which is very definitely "in common use at [this] time." A good originalist will catch that right away.
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Re: Federal Appeals Court Ruling - Maryland

Post by bignflnut »

Dean concurs with Werz
The problem for the Fourth Circuit decision is that the semi-automatic and other firearms banned are not “dangerous and unusual”. AR15 and similar semi-automatic rifles are the most popular rifles in the United States, numbering about 5-10 million. There are likely a hundred million standard capacity magazines that hold more than 10 rounds in use in the United States. The Supreme Court unanimously held, in the Caetano PER CURIAM decision (pdf), that:
The Court has held that “the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding,” District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U. S. 570, 582 (2008), and that this “Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States,” McDonald v.Chicago, 561 U. S. 742, 750 (2010).
Rifles, as a group, are arms that are least likely to be used in homicides. The Fourth Circuit cleverly avoided considering that fact by pre-emptively excluding those rifles from the protection of the Second Amendment. Because they excluded the rifles from Second Amendment protection, the Court avoided the requirement to apply strict scrutiny to the law.
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"Dangerous and Unusual"

The 4th Circuit seems to see Danger everywhere. (Cue John Oliver)
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Re: Federal Appeals Court Ruling - Maryland

Post by bignflnut »

An effort to educate the 4th Circuit...
According to author Lenden Eakin : “The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly found that the Second Amendment protects civilian ownership of firearms for Militia purposes, but has not defined those purposes. Federal Courts of Appeal have upheld “Assault Weapons” bans without respecting Militia purposes as recently as last week (4th Circuit).

The President, as Commander in Chief of the Militia under the Constitution, has full authority to designate the arms for people to bear in order to achieve Militia purposes.”
He then goes on to detail the Executive Order
Section 4. Designation of Militia Rifles. That the following firearms and accessories are authorized and appropriate for individual citizens to keep and bear for Militia purposes under the Constitution and the laws of the United States:
(a) The AR-15 and similar semi-automatic rifles, to include flash suppressors and bayonet lugs, magazines of up to thirty round capacities, M-7 bayonets, and ammunition in 5.56 NATO or .223 Remington, in all quantities.
(b) The M1A and similar semi-automatic rifles, to include flash suppressors and bayonet lugs, magazines of up to twenty round capacities, M-6 bayonets, and ammunition in 7.62 NATO or .308 Winchester, in all quantities.
(c) The M1 Garand and similar semi-automatic rifles, to include flash suppressors and bayonet lugs, M-5 bayonets, and ammunition in .30-’06 Springfield, in all quantities.
(d) Bolt action rifles in the calibers of .30-’06 Springfield; 7.62 NATO or .308 Winchester; 5.56 NATO or .223 Remington; or any substantially equivalent caliber, and ammunition appropriate for the rifles, in any quantity.
(This list could easily be expanded or replaced by a broad definition.)
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Federal Appeals Court Ruling - Maryland

Post by bignflnut »

A solid writeup on Kolbe v Hogan (with a video)
Unfortunately, what would have been a welcomed difference in opinion between the circuit courts was overruled when the case was reheard en banc. It was all too happy to reaffirm the District Court’s opinion in part. However, unlike the District Court, it made an explicit statement, that has gun owners very upset.
The 4th Circuit en banc declared that “contrary to the now-vacated decision of our prior panel — the banned assault weapons and large-capacity magazines are not protected by the Second Amendment.

That is, we are convinced that the banned assault weapons and large-capacity magazines are among those arms that are ‘like’ ‘M-16 rifles’ — ‘weapons that are most useful in military service’ — which the Heller Court singled out as being beyond the Second Amendment’s reach…Put simply, we have no power to extend Second Amendment protection to the weapons of war that the Heller decision explicitly excluded from such coverage.” It further stated that the appropriate level of scrutiny to apply to such a challenge was intermediate scrutiny. In other words, the Court believes that the Second Amendment does not warrant the highest level of protection when analyzing a challenge to the constitutionality of a law it may infringe upon.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Federal Appeals Court Ruling - Maryland

Post by bignflnut »

We, Americans, are supposed to be governed by laws, but laws and jurisprudential standards, consistent with the dictates of our Nation’s Constitution, sublimely overseen by our Nation’s Bill of Rights. That is as the framers of our Nation’s Constitution with its preeminent Bill of Rights intended. That is as the founders of a free Republic envisioned. That is as our Nation was always supposed to be. What happened to change this?

Quietly, subtly, seemingly irrevocably we are sliding into the throes of tyranny, which, by definition, means a Nation ruled by men—by the dictates of men—not by law.

SNIP

Tyranny arises, third, when our Judiciary–the third Branch of our Government—comprising our Federal Courts–go awry, ignoring its own case law precedent, peppering and lacing case decisions, not with the law as it exists, but with law as individual jurists would like that law to be, creating new “law” out of whole cloth—new law that undermines, rather than safeguards, our Bill of Rights—new law that supports a jurist’s personal philosophical convictions and beliefs—such personal philosophical convictions and beliefs that, taken to the extreme, disassemble our sacred rights and liberties—that, taken to the extreme, supplant our rights and liberties with artificial constructs, denigrating the very idea inherent in our legal system, namely that our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, reign supreme—second to those of no other nation, and no group of nations, and no international tribunals.

The threat to our Nation—our Nation as a Free Republic, grounded in and overseen by our Bill of Rights, codifying natural law, our fundamental rights, supreme, emphatic—is most serious, most grievous, and most egregious when that threat derives from an overzealous, freewheeling Federal Judiciary, operating from a personal philosophical perspective, one at odds with the import and purport of our Nation’s Bill of Rights, one in contravention to clear case law precedent that promotes uniformity, consistency in our body of law.

The threat posed by a federal judiciary that eschews case law precedent constitutes a serious breach and the most serious threat to our Nation and to the rule of law, for the federal Judiciary, as the Third Branch of our Government, as the interpreter of law, is the final bastion of “the rule of law.”

If a federal judiciary forsakes its duty under the law, tyranny arises in the most devious way imaginable, for it is in the third Branch of Government—with its learned practitioners of the law—most adept at subverting the law if it so chooses—doing so secretly, within the interstices of complex terminology and argot—that the lay American public becomes hoodwinked, thinking that its rights and liberties are other than the way the public might think–less than they may have imagined–less than they really are. That is where the true subversion of the rule of law occurs.
This is excerpted from the 9th installment of the Kolbe v Hogan analysis on a certain site...It's a master class...
The Second Amendment case ((Kolbe vs. O’Malley, 42 F. Supp. 3d 768 (D. Md. 2014); vacated and remanded, Kolbe vs. Hogan, 813 F.3d 160 (4th Cir. 2016); rev’d en banc, Kolbe vs. Hogan, 849 F.3d 114 (4th Cir. 2017)), illustrates how far some federal courts will go to decide cases in contravention to United States Supreme Court precedent, doing so through dissimulation, through dissembling; and, in so doing, acting in league—whether conscious or not—with those unscrupulous interests in Congress and with those sanctimonious interests in the mainstream media, and with those hardened, confident, powerful, shadowy, ruthless interests behind the scene—to undermine our most sacred right—the right of the American people to keep and bear arms in their own defense, in defense of their families, and in defense of all American people— against tyranny.

It is one thing for Courts to denigrate the sanctity of the Second Amendment through misapprehension of the law. It is quite another for Courts to denigrate the sanctity of the Second Amendment through deliberate misapplication of the law. Unconscious misapprehension of the law in judicial decision-making may be pardonable although its impact on the lives of Americans is harmed just the same, albeit contained. Deliberate misapplication of the law in judicial decision-making isn’t pardonable. It operates as a betrayal. That betrayal suffuses itself throughout the body of our Nation’s law, throughout the entirety of our system of law, throughout our jurisprudence, weakening the very heart of the Constitution—the Bill of Rights, negating the principle that we are a Nation ruled by law, not by men.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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