Stop The National Carry ‘Permit’ Movement

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WestonDon
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Re: Stop The National Carry ‘Permit’ Movement

Post by WestonDon »

If national reciprocity ever does come to pass I expect a blizzard of highly restrictive new state laws to be enacted. Especially in the "may issue" states. Laws that are designed to make concealed carry so inconvenient it would be impossible.This is where that "reasonable restrictions" nonsense in "Heller" will come back to bite us. Could New York prohibit guns on bridges? Could California require firearms inspection at the state line for ammunition capacity. (Which would be limited to one round in your shirt pocket ala Barney Fife.) Could Hawaii ban firearms within five miles of the ocean?

OK, those are extremely stupid laws but never underestimate the capacity of liberals to enact extremely stupid laws. Sure as the sun came up this morning someone is going to try and do stuff like that and if it's not addressed ahead of time then National reciprocity will be as useless as a screen door on the space shuttle.

As it is now I see two ways to prevent that from happening. First, some sort of nationwide preemption like we have statewide preemption here in Ohio. Something NOBODY WANTS. Second, get SCOTUS to issue a clear definition of "reasonable restrictions" that we can live with. Unlikely to happen and a dangerous path to pursue.

As I wright this the more convinced I have become that getting the Federal government involved in this at all is like making a deal with the Devil. It won't end well.
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Morne
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Re: Stop The National Carry ‘Permit’ Movement

Post by Morne »

M-Quigley wrote:Although I'm not confident a lot of (or maybe any) pro gun federal legislation will get passed in the next 2 years, what harm is there in trying? When the anti gunners ask for the moon and only make slight progress, you don't hear them complaining. They're perfectly fine with chipping away at gun rights. If we don't get everything we want, it's still progress. Even if there's no progress, let the anti gunners play defense for a change.
I agree completely. We absolutely SHOULD try to move the pro-2A ball forward in the next congress. In fact, we should even be able to make GREATER gains than in years past.

Will the Dems fillibuster? Probably. Let them. Those Democrat Senators include some who are up for re-election in 2018. In fact, the Democrats have an OVERWHELMING number of their seats up in 2018. Some of them in pretty pro-gun states. Will they risk their political future to hang tough with the loony anti-gun forces? If so, 2018 could very easily give us a fillibuster-proof senate instead. :idea:
US Senate Election in 2018

The pro-gun movement in general, and the NRA in particular, is one of the most effective on Capitol Hill. Even the anti-gun Dems agree on that point. With the Dem Senatorial Campaign Committee stretched thin in 2018 the senators from pro-gun states won't be able to rely on outside money to save them from the hangover of opposing pro-gun legislation.

Personally, I think the Dems are going to have to carefully pick their battles. If they are smart they'll choose a few core constituency groups and make a big splash about standing up for them. Maybe they'll fillibuster something about relaxing environmental regulations. Maybe they'll give long-winded speeches on the floor about the minimum wage. Maybe they'll stoke the flames of racism for awhile. All of those are safer paths than fighting against us.

That's how we get those greater gains. First we win, then we go to battle.
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djthomas
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Re: Stop The National Carry ‘Permit’ Movement

Post by djthomas »

WestonDon wrote:If national reciprocity ever does come to pass I expect a blizzard of highly restrictive new state laws to be enacted. Especially in the "may issue" states. Laws that are designed to make concealed carry so inconvenient it would be impossible.This is where that "reasonable restrictions" nonsense in "Heller" will come back to bite us. Could New York prohibit guns on bridges? Could California require firearms inspection at the state line for ammunition capacity. (Which would be limited to one round in your shirt pocket ala Barney Fife.) Could Hawaii ban firearms within five miles of the ocean?
While I fully expect some antics, I think that ironically they'll have more trouble doing so in these may issue states. You see, in places like New York City and New Jersey the only way to get a license is to be politically connected, a mega billionaire, or both. So if the politicos in these states start coming up with crazy restrictions they'll be inconveniencing themselves, their friends and people with tons of money (and thus influence) a heck of a lot more than Joe Ohioan who goes to New York for a long weekend with the wife.

The other issue is that the current proposed text of 926D reads exactly like LEOSA. It doesn't say that an out-of-stater has to follow the visited state's concealed carry rules. To the contrary, it says that they may carry a concealed handgun in the visited state, except that states may prohibit firearms on any state or local government property, installation, building, base, or park, and private property owners may continue to restrict firearms on their property. It's a subtle but critical distinction. So even if a state decided to restrict the heck out of where its licensees can carry I don't know that it would affect people carrying under 926D except as concerns government property.

Also ... unlike LEOSA the proposed text also creates a private right of action for somebody who is inappropriately charged to recover costs and fees.
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Re: Stop The National Carry ‘Permit’ Movement

Post by mrbone »

National reciprocity is what's in the works, which is no more a national ID card than your Ohio driver's license. Less, in fact, since Ohio still won't recognize the CHL as primary ID and since the evil REAL ID act won't apply to a CHL.

It's not a great law. For example, under existing law New York will arrest anyone with an unregistered handgun in the state. So with national reciprocity, I'd still not be able to carry in NY unless I went through a handgun registration process with them. But at least for the states with halfway decent laws we'd no longer have the shell game of who recognizes whom. For example, MN recently dropped Ohio. If you were on vacation in MN when this happened and didn't get the news then all of the sudden you're a felon.
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Re: Stop The National Carry ‘Permit’ Movement

Post by bignflnut »

Morne wrote: I agree completely. We absolutely SHOULD try to move the pro-2A ball forward in the next congress. In fact, we should even be able to make GREATER gains than in years past.

Will the Dems fillibuster? Probably. Let them. Those Democrat Senators include some who are up for re-election in 2018. In fact, the Democrats have an OVERWHELMING number of their seats up in 2018. Some of them in pretty pro-gun states. Will they risk their political future to hang tough with the loony anti-gun forces? If so, 2018 could very easily give us a fillibuster-proof senate instead. :idea:
US Senate Election in 2018

The pro-gun movement in general, and the NRA in particular, is one of the most effective on Capitol Hill. Even the anti-gun Dems agree on that point. With the Dem Senatorial Campaign Committee stretched thin in 2018 the senators from pro-gun states won't be able to rely on outside money to save them from the hangover of opposing pro-gun legislation.

Personally, I think the Dems are going to have to carefully pick their battles. If they are smart they'll choose a few core constituency groups and make a big splash about standing up for them. Maybe they'll fillibuster something about relaxing environmental regulations. Maybe they'll give long-winded speeches on the floor about the minimum wage. Maybe they'll stoke the flames of racism for awhile. All of those are safer paths than fighting against us.

That's how we get those greater gains. First we win, then we go to battle.
Aside from the supposed effectiveness of the NRA (nationally), it's fun to agree with Morne and know he can't see that he has agreed with /restated my position.
Don't tell him, though. It can be our little secret.
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