Chicago Tribune shows off the bayonet lug on an AR-15

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sodbuster95
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Re: Chicago Tribune shows off the bayonet lug on an AR-15

Post by sodbuster95 »

cashman966 wrote:The correction
Here’s what isn’t fair, though: Some readers seized this opportunity to accuse us of using this graphic to promote what they termed a specific liberal agenda on the topic of gun control. They saw our labeling mistake as a deliberate misrepresentation, one that made these weapons seem more dangerous. Let me say emphatically that this was a careless mistake, not an intentional deception nor bias. It is regrettable because we got a basic fact wrong, period.
Yeah, because it's completely "unfair" that people call out your blatant and agenda-riddled bias.
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Re: Chicago Tribune shows off the bayonet lug on an AR-15

Post by Tinker »

how fear mongering and anti-gun is a media outlet that can't find one gun person within its ranks to admit to being a gun enthusiast and point out how wrong they are...
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe. (Luke 11:21)
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Re: Chicago Tribune shows off the bayonet lug on an AR-15

Post by Naticarry »

They still don't understand that a flash supressor doesn't help concealment unless you are concealing yourself from some one standing directly over your shoulder looking down the top of your reciever. If that is the case I think there are a number of other clues about your where abouts that they might pick up on.
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Re: Chicago Tribune shows off the bayonet lug on an AR-15

Post by Tweed Ring »

Yeah, all of the above, but I have to admit, that was a superior lug...
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Re: Chicago Tribune shows off the bayonet lug on an AR-15

Post by painiac »

This discussion on bayonets made me think of a chapter from "The Gun" by CJ Chivers. The relevant excerpt:
British fascination with the bayonet persisted in the face of all evidence that it was a weapon long outmoded. In theory, the mettle of disciplined men moving forward into fire to slash and stab their foes was enough to unnerve almost any enemy force. In practice, moving forward with a big knife into machine-gun fire, across open ground and in extended lines, was not much different from Zulu warriors attacking British Gatlings with spears at Ulundi in 1879, or Sudanese men rushing with swords toward General Kitchener's Maxim guns along the Nile in 1898.

Casualty reports from World War I were not fully reliable, especially in real time. Lists were incomplete or repetitious, and there was no standardized method among the Allies for collecting and distributing information crucial to assessing the wounding agents in war. But the available statistics, for all their flaws, virtually roared on one point: Bayonets were unquestionably ineffective in what war had become. One military critic wrote in February 1916 that data collected from a French army corps that had been in heavy action found that bayonets caused 0.5 percent of casualties, while shells, grenades, trench explosions, shrapnel, and bullets accounted for a combined 92.5 percent (7 percent of the injuries were of undetermined cause). That even one-half of one percent of the casualties were caused by bayonets was a testimony less to their martial utility than to the fact that both sides insisted on fighting with them.

Such data might have suggested to the war's planners, and to the designers of infantry-school curricula, that perhaps it was time to explore an alternative set of weapons and means of fighting. And yet as fresh troops were being drilled to enter the war, prowess with the bayonet remained near the center of infantry training. Thus the British manual on the subject, a terrifying period piece:
The bayonet is essentially an offensive weapon. In a bayonet assault all ranks go forward to kill or be killed, and only those who have developed skill and strength by constant training will be able to kill. The spirit of the bayonet must be inculcated into all ranks, so that they go forward with the aggressive determination and confidence of superiority born of continued practice, without which a bayonet charge will not be effective.
There happened to be other factors that made bayonet charges ineffective; Hiram Maxim and the European gun works that received licenses to manufacture his patterns had seen to that. But the romance with cold steel endured. Traditions - and bad ideas - die more slowly than men.
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Re: Chicago Tribune shows off the bayonet lug on an AR-15

Post by sodbuster95 »

painiac wrote:This discussion on bayonets made me think of a chapter from "The Gun" by CJ Chivers. The relevant excerpt:
It's not necessary to go that far back to see that bayonet training is still at least integral to military thinking. I have to assume that even the most insane commander understands that actually *using* a bayonet in an offensive manner is no longer an option. But, it's still there and Basic Combat Training still includes the use of a bayonet in an offensive manner.

Interesting story of the guy who supposedly led the Army's Last Bayonet Charge in Korea in 1951. Assuming his men still had ammunition, I'd call that pretty nuts.
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Re: Chicago Tribune shows off the bayonet lug on an AR-15

Post by EChryst »

sodbuster95 wrote: It's not necessary to go that far back to see that bayonet training is still at least integral to military thinking. I have to assume that even the most insane commander understands that actually *using* a bayonet in an offensive manner is no longer an option. But, it's still there and Basic Combat Training still includes the use of a bayonet in an offensive manner.

It's no longer an option, until it's an option.

Afghanistan Bayonet Charge

Overall, though I agree. Bayonet training, in my opinion, develops the "Warrior Ethos" or whatever you want to call it, and that's mostly it.
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Re: Chicago Tribune shows off the bayonet lug on an AR-15

Post by sodbuster95 »

EChryst wrote:
sodbuster95 wrote: It's not necessary to go that far back to see that bayonet training is still at least integral to military thinking. I have to assume that even the most insane commander understands that actually *using* a bayonet in an offensive manner is no longer an option. But, it's still there and Basic Combat Training still includes the use of a bayonet in an offensive manner.

It's no longer an option, until it's an option.

Afghanistan Bayonet Charge

Overall, though I agree. Bayonet training, in my opinion, develops the "Warrior Ethos" or whatever you want to call it, and that's mostly it.
Hadn't heard about that. Great big brass ones, right there.
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Re: Chicago Tribune shows off the bayonet lug on an AR-15

Post by Tweed Ring »

From what I remember about bayonet training, it teaches the trainee that all killing of the enemy is not done at long distances, that using the bayonet can be more efficient that hand-to-hand combat, and that the bayonet, while ancient technology, is still effective, when needed.
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Re: Chicago Tribune shows off the bayonet lug on an AR-15

Post by carmen fovozzo »

Facing a raving mad GI in full battle gear with his M-14 and Bayonet attached to it makes one want to poop his pants..
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Re: Chicago Tribune shows off the bayonet lug on an AR-15

Post by EChryst »

Tweed Ring wrote:From what I remember about bayonet training, it teaches the trainee that all killing of the enemy is not done at long distances, that using the bayonet can be more efficient that hand-to-hand combat, and that the bayonet, while ancient technology, is still effective, when needed.
We trained with Bayonets and Pugil Sticks in Basic, after that - our unit trained more with the Army Combatives Program than with bayonets. We were more likely to have hands on situations in closer environments that would require immediate physical problem solving.
-Erik
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