issue vs legislation

[dan_sayers]

Forgive my ignorance, but I've been meaning to ask: How come some laws are put up as issues while others are made in legislation? Something this recent election has left me curious about. Thank you for your time.

[almega]

Anything can be an issue if it gets 10k signatures, right?

[jgarvas]

Forgive my ignorance, but I've been meaning to ask: How come some laws are put up as issues while others are made in legislation? Something this recent election has left me curious about. Thank you for your time.

Legislation is created by the General Assembly and signed into law by the Governor.

Ballot Initiatives (ie: the issues we vote on) are brought about by the people and do not necessarily involve elected officials, the governor, etc. If you wanted to pass a ballot issue that created Dan Sayers day you could gather the signatures of enough people to equal 6% of the number of people who voted (total) in the Gubernatorial election.

You need to gather those signatures in at least 44 of the 88 counties in Ohio and you have to do it in a 90 day period after filing your issue with the Secretary of State's office. Then you need to convince the majority of Ohioans who vote on your issue to vote in favor of passing it.

This is from memory and may be slightly inaccurate, but an issue is the method in which "we the people" can petition our government for redress.

[Cruiser]

Forgive my ignorance, but I've been meaning to ask: How come some laws are put up as issues while others are made in legislation? Something this recent election has left me curious about. Thank you for your time.

Legislation is created by the General Assembly and signed into law by the Governor.

Ballot Initiatives (ie: the issues we vote on) are brought about by the people and do not necessarily involve elected officials, the governor, etc. If you wanted to pass a ballot issue that created Dan Sayers day you could gather the signatures of enough people to equal 6% of the number of people who voted (total) in the Gubernatorial election.

You need to gather those signatures in at least 44 of the 88 counties in Ohio and you have to do it in a 90 day period after filing your issue with the Secretary of State's office. Then you need to convince the majority of Ohioans who vote on your issue to vote in favor of passing it.

This is from memory and may be slightly inaccurate, but an issue is the method in which "we the people" can petition our government for redress.

Which is exactly how Smoke Free Ohio got to be the Law of the land.

[cashman966]

Ballot Initiatives (ie: the issues we vote on) are brought about by the people and do not necessarily involve elected officials, the governor, etc. If you wanted to pass a ballot issue that created Dan Sayers day you could gather the signatures of enough people to equal 6% of the number of people who voted (total) in the Gubernatorial election.

Actually for an initiative, like smokefree, you would first collect 3%, then it is submitted to the General Assembly.

They have 4 months to pass or fail to pass it as written, amend it and pass or fail to pass it, or do nothing.

The committee that submitted it can then be happy it passed as written or as amended and do nothing. If they don't like it passed as amended, it failed to pass as written, or if no action is taken they can collect an additional 3% and submit it as a ballot issue.

If it failed, but was amended they have the choice of adding the amendments to their petitions if they like or submit it as originally written.

Referendums and Constitutional Amendments go straight to the ballot.

Here is a link to all the particulars State Issues Procedures

[dan_sayers]

Thanks for the info, gentlemen. I'm sure it was covered in civics at some point. Guess I didn't retain it all

So why is it that we don't make use of this process more often? Is it because it as tedious/nearly insurmountable as it sounds?

Also, what about contradiction? Like say we had legislation like HB12 and then we attempted to file for an issue to do away with plain sight for example? Are there checks from preventing "we the people" from interrupting the criminal-friendly motions?

[NavyChief]

Thanks for the info, gentlemen. I'm sure it was covered in civics at some point. Guess I didn't retain it all

Actually, maybe (perhaps even probably) not. The average naturalized citizen has a far better grasp of our governmental processes than the average high school - or even college - graduate.

[Tither]

Thanks for the info, gentlemen. I'm sure it was covered in civics at some point. Guess I didn't retain it all

Actually, maybe (perhaps even probably) not. The average naturalized citizen has a far better grasp of our governmental processes than the average high school - or even college - graduate.

Sadly so Chief. And that wasn’t meant as a shot Dan. You know you have my deepest respect.

[Tither]

So why is it that we don't make use of this process more often? Is it because it as tedious/nearly insurmountable as it sounds?

Also, what about contradiction? Like say we had legislation like HB12 and then we attempted to file for an issue to do away with plain sight for example?

I personally don’t think we have the votes to pass such a law. It is way too easy for the Anti’s and the Anti-gun media to put out scare commercials that would make the average soccer mom vote against it, just in case.

I have observed that even though we can swing elections to one candidate, we sadly cannot elect a candidate we pro-gunners choose. I.E. like replacing DeWhy am I so Anti-gun on the Republican ballot. We seem to be a small powerful block but just don’t have the overwhelming voting power to get the people we want on the ballot.

That is why the Anti's were so anxious to have us to put CCW on the ballot instead of going the legislative route.

If it weren’t for the Ohio Constitution, I personally think the Anti’s would have put Anti-gun measures on the ballot, but they know the Ohio S.C would have no choice but overturn it like the S.F. Handgun ban was overturned.

[Tither]

Here is exactly what I am talking about.
With 86 Percent of Voters Demanding Action, Cook County Strengthens Assault Weapons Ban Law

"Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, issued the following statement about the Cook County Board strengthening the county's ordinance banning assault weapons in Cook County:"

"'On Election Day, the people of Cook County sent a clear message about military-style semiautomatic assault weapons: They are not wanted or needed on American streets. The County Board listened to the voters, and moved to strengthen the ban on these weapons within the County limits. The Illinois State Legislature should listen, too, and pass a statewide assault weapons ban as requested by 86 percent of the Cook County voters on Nov. 7. Such action would set an example, too, for the new U.S. Congress." ...

The Referendum in question

[NavyChief]

And that wasn’t meant as a shot Dan.

Nope, not at all. I've seen some of the text books used in what passes as "civics class" these days. ...just make ya' wanna weep.

[Dr. Winston]

I may be off base here, but I'm not sure we have the 'numbers' to make the desired affects on most of our gun laws. Why? Because many gun owners are union workers, UAW for example, and those unions are pro democrate, therefore we loose alot of those votes. Also, we have many gun owners who are in the retirement age and get involved with groups like AARP, and read their propaganda and they too are pro democrate.
I'm not sure how best to ever get a majority of gun owners to actually VOTE their guns, but I don't think it will ever happen UNTIL they are bumb enough to place something on the ballot that says:
VOTE YES OR NOT to make it illegal to own a gun period! THEN, the gun owners would speak. (But also would the antis in large numbers!)

[Cruiser]

Here is exactly what I am talking about.
With 86 Percent of Voters Demanding Action, Cook County Strengthens Assault Weapons Ban Law

"Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, issued the following statement about the Cook County Board strengthening the county's ordinance banning assault weapons in Cook County:"

"'On Election Day, the people of Cook County sent a clear message about military-style semiautomatic assault weapons: They are not wanted or needed on American streets. The County Board listened to the voters, and moved to strengthen the ban on these weapons within the County limits. The Illinois State Legislature should listen, too, and pass a statewide assault weapons ban as requested by 86 percent of the Cook County voters on Nov. 7. Such action would set an example, too, for the new U.S. Congress." ...

The Referendum in question

As long Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley runs the State , Illinois will never be liberated.

[dan_sayers]

And that wasn’t meant as a shot Dan.

Oh I know. I'm well aware of how much of a joke public education has become.

I personally don’t think we have the votes to pass such a law.

No doubt. Just that the libertarian in me delights in just fantasizing about the ability to simply make things right. I'd still like to know where the line is and whether or not "we the people" would be able to smack down something like plain sight by ourselves.

As for Cook County, guns are already illegal in Illinois, the new Great Britain of good guy control. Those people don't seem to realize that illegalizing these things don't make them disappear. They instead either put the guns into the hands of the criminals or criminalizes a person for owning something they only engage in lawful acts with.

"Where we once had a few big rules, now we need an encyclopedia of little rules." -G K Chesterton, 29 July 1905. Perhaps that's why they also have such issue with the ten commandments being posted in schools. Who has time for concise, all-encompassing rules when we can instead confuse you to the point of jumping from one foot to another to the point where you'll just lay in the corner and do as you're told from fear of being tripped. Mwa ha ha ha!

[Tither]

Just that the libertarian in me delights in just fantasizing about the ability to simply make things right.

That’s why you are one of my favorite people! That and the fact you have become a legend on the Ohio Pro-gun community! See martyrdom also brings fame!