OC (Pepper) Spray
Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators
-
- Posts: 329
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:13 am
- Location: Brecksville
Speaking of that, the wife got collared into helping a girlfriend make hot peppers one evening, and had a problem with the gloves. When she came home complaining about the pain, I called the PD for advice. (Couldn't remember the name of the "antidote".) The dispatcher and I got a good laugh out of it - I'm sure he was wondering if somebody got sprayed and got away.
I used to "can" hot peppers and have a little bit of advice for all of you gentlemen out there (probably not bad advice for the ladies either)
ALWAYS WASH YOUR HANDS BEFORE USING THE FACILITIES !!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to tell you, You'll only do that ONCE.......
Like my father used to say " You gotta be tough if you're gonna be stupid"
Roger
I used to "can" hot peppers and have a little bit of advice for all of you gentlemen out there (probably not bad advice for the ladies either)
ALWAYS WASH YOUR HANDS BEFORE USING THE FACILITIES !!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to tell you, You'll only do that ONCE.......
Like my father used to say " You gotta be tough if you're gonna be stupid"
Roger
-
- Posts: 9557
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:36 am
- Location: Youngstown OH
Roger:
I think my wife figured that one out....
But I agree. You won't forget that lesson.
What happened here, I think, is that she got some of the juice on her hands and put the gloves on without getting it all off.
By the time she got home, her hands were kind of warm. She's got enough arthritis and diabetic neuropathy that it felt fairly good for a while.... Then it got to her....
Regards,
I think my wife figured that one out....
But I agree. You won't forget that lesson.
What happened here, I think, is that she got some of the juice on her hands and put the gloves on without getting it all off.
By the time she got home, her hands were kind of warm. She's got enough arthritis and diabetic neuropathy that it felt fairly good for a while.... Then it got to her....
Regards,
Stu.
(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)
(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)
יזכר לא עד פעם
(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)
(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)
יזכר לא עד פעם
-
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:20 am
- Location: Cincinnati, OH
- Contact:
I keep a couple of Sudecon decontamination wipes in my car and at my house just in case I ever get hit by some over spray or have the wind blow some back onto me. If you have OC spray with you I suggest doing this, since hitting yourself or someone besides the bad guy happens fairly often.
When the goin' gets tough, the tough go cyclic.
Happiness is a crew served weapon.
Happiness is a crew served weapon.
-
- Posts: 255
- Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:37 am
- Location: Columbus, OH
One more thing to consider about OC sprays, or any other formulae (most of which is inferior):
It may not, probably will not, have an effect on a determined attacker. That's even if you do your job and get plenty of OC in their face (primary target is the eyes).
Most people don't practice other than to do a test spray (if instructed by the canister--some foggers are not supposed to be test sprayed) and maybe read the instructions.
I used to carry Punch II, which was one of the better brands. It was a 5% solution of 2 million SHUs. I got sprayed with it about five times in "live" testing at OSU. The first time it "stopped" me. Later on, after reading an article by Phil Messina of Modern Warrior Institute on "goal oriented training," I participated in another test. That time it didn't stop me, nor even slow me down.
In fact, I went twice that day, since the first person did not hit my face but only my chest. On the second try, the next "defender" got me in the face and managed to run away after evading my grab.
On that day, out of four tries, she was the only one to successfully get away, and that was her second go at it (so she had practice).
Four out of four times, the OC (MACE brand keychain unit for the first run, then Punch II fogger for the last three) did NOT stop any of the "attackers." We were just college students, not "warrior martial artists."
I'm not saying OC is not good, it has it's place. You need to practice with it under pressure and practice hitting a moving target. Get a few inert spray cans to practice with for this.
I also highly advise anyone carrying OC to GET SPRAYED WITH IT. If the first time you "get some" is when it is blown back on you, that is not the best time for your "first experience."
Training is just as important as with firearms. Plus, empty hand training is best to go with it.
Expect the OC to fail and have a "Plan B." Be happy if it works.
Karl
It may not, probably will not, have an effect on a determined attacker. That's even if you do your job and get plenty of OC in their face (primary target is the eyes).
Most people don't practice other than to do a test spray (if instructed by the canister--some foggers are not supposed to be test sprayed) and maybe read the instructions.
I used to carry Punch II, which was one of the better brands. It was a 5% solution of 2 million SHUs. I got sprayed with it about five times in "live" testing at OSU. The first time it "stopped" me. Later on, after reading an article by Phil Messina of Modern Warrior Institute on "goal oriented training," I participated in another test. That time it didn't stop me, nor even slow me down.
In fact, I went twice that day, since the first person did not hit my face but only my chest. On the second try, the next "defender" got me in the face and managed to run away after evading my grab.
On that day, out of four tries, she was the only one to successfully get away, and that was her second go at it (so she had practice).
Four out of four times, the OC (MACE brand keychain unit for the first run, then Punch II fogger for the last three) did NOT stop any of the "attackers." We were just college students, not "warrior martial artists."
I'm not saying OC is not good, it has it's place. You need to practice with it under pressure and practice hitting a moving target. Get a few inert spray cans to practice with for this.
I also highly advise anyone carrying OC to GET SPRAYED WITH IT. If the first time you "get some" is when it is blown back on you, that is not the best time for your "first experience."
Training is just as important as with firearms. Plus, empty hand training is best to go with it.
Expect the OC to fail and have a "Plan B." Be happy if it works.
Karl
I WANT VERMONT! (OR "ALASKA")
That's FIRST AMENDMENT CRUSADER PIGLET!
That's FIRST AMENDMENT CRUSADER PIGLET!
-
- Posts: 2936
- Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:27 pm
- Location: Youngstown,Oh
- Contact:
Re:O.C Spray
I know you guys are right and a lot of good advice. Just don't get stupid like I did and carry the small can in your pocket. Hey! That waasn't Spanish Fly that made my leg and everything else Hotter n a Hot tamale!! lol Get a holder for the can if you carry it on the belt.
I don't need protection! I got the wife.THEN pull out the artillery
I don't need protection! I got the wife.THEN pull out the artillery
-
- OFCC Coordinator
- Posts: 11621
- Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:22 am
- Location: Greene County
- Contact:
What Karl said. You shouldn't view your OC as a "fight-stopper." (If it works out that way, great. Just don't count on it.) All OC should be counted on for is a distractor. You're not gonna put 'em down with it, just buy yourself enought time to "get outta Dodge."
Now, for a different question. Does anyone have any reports how well OC might work on a dog? I don't mean your garden variety dog, but a determined fighting dog. I've read reports of ball bats being broken over the backs of pit bulls and not breaking off the attack. So I have to wonder if the pain of OC would even begin to deter this type of animal. I mean, they're trained to "fight through the pain."
Now, for a different question. Does anyone have any reports how well OC might work on a dog? I don't mean your garden variety dog, but a determined fighting dog. I've read reports of ball bats being broken over the backs of pit bulls and not breaking off the attack. So I have to wonder if the pain of OC would even begin to deter this type of animal. I mean, they're trained to "fight through the pain."
Total repeal of ALL firearms/weapons laws at the local, state and federal levels. Period. Wipe the slate clean.
-
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:44 pm
- Location: Akron, Ohio
I currently work for the telco and have been in many peoples back yards while they were gone. This unfortunately enables me to meet many family pets. I do carry pepper spray, 17% mix. It works pretty well on most dogs, but i don't even try to use it on pit bulls or any boxer types. It just {inappropriate language} em off even more. I think if one of them ever caught me, they would use my spray like I use paprika, a nice seasoning for their food.
NRA Life Member
The only correct actions are those that demand no explanation and no apology.
The only correct actions are those that demand no explanation and no apology.
-
- Posts: 255
- Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:37 am
- Location: Columbus, OH
NavyChief wrote:
"Now, for a different question. Does anyone have any reports how well OC might work on a dog? I don't mean your garden variety dog, but a determined fighting dog."
Trained fighting dogs are often taught to ignore pain and discomfort (including emotional discomfort). Thus, like any human who has learned to deal with pain, a trained dog probably won't stop when sprayed with OC.
I wouldn't bet on OC for any truly vicious dog. However, I'd be remiss if I implied I had any first hand reports. I believe I've read of failures on several defensive forums from seemingly reliable folks though.
A thoroughly legal "nonweapon" to have for dog attacks would be a nice heavy Maglite at least 4-C or 3-D cell or larger.
If someone still wanted to carry OC for dogs, I'd recommend one of the larger "bear sprays" in a high SHU concentration (at least 2 million) and percentage (at least 10 to 15 %), in a large fogger type canister with a good range to it. One would at least maximize the concentration of OC and give it maximum chance to have an effect.
I'd still rather have the Maglite!
Karl
"Now, for a different question. Does anyone have any reports how well OC might work on a dog? I don't mean your garden variety dog, but a determined fighting dog."
Trained fighting dogs are often taught to ignore pain and discomfort (including emotional discomfort). Thus, like any human who has learned to deal with pain, a trained dog probably won't stop when sprayed with OC.
I wouldn't bet on OC for any truly vicious dog. However, I'd be remiss if I implied I had any first hand reports. I believe I've read of failures on several defensive forums from seemingly reliable folks though.
A thoroughly legal "nonweapon" to have for dog attacks would be a nice heavy Maglite at least 4-C or 3-D cell or larger.
If someone still wanted to carry OC for dogs, I'd recommend one of the larger "bear sprays" in a high SHU concentration (at least 2 million) and percentage (at least 10 to 15 %), in a large fogger type canister with a good range to it. One would at least maximize the concentration of OC and give it maximum chance to have an effect.
I'd still rather have the Maglite!
Karl
I WANT VERMONT! (OR "ALASKA")
That's FIRST AMENDMENT CRUSADER PIGLET!
That's FIRST AMENDMENT CRUSADER PIGLET!
-
- Deceased
- Posts: 9710
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:31 am
- Location: Toledo
I had a wonderful dog -- part Chow, part Shepherd. He was beautiful. He weighed 80 lbs and looked like he was going 60mph when he was sitting still. His paws were as big as my fists and his forelegs bigger than my forearms. I do not doubt that he could have bitten through an iron bar. I had named him Tux, after a scout dog that had saved my life (or at least my legs) in Viet Nam.NavyChief wrote:Now, for a different question. Does anyone have any reports how well OC might work on a dog? I don't mean your garden variety dog, but a determined fighting dog.
Last October there was a commotion in my back yard. When I went out to check on it, I found the guy from Toledo Edison. He had entered my yard to read the meter without first ringing the doorbell (had he done that first, I could have moved the dog). He had met my dog and had used his OC spray on it.
These Edison employees carry a handy gadget about the size of a small typewriter to record meter readings. By the time I got out there, Tux had bitten this guy's recorder clear in two, and had the guy backed up against the wall. The guy was upset: Tux didn't hurt him, but neither did he let him go. I'm not sure what would have happened if I hadn't been there, but for sure the OC spray didn't affect my dog much.
After the guy left, I got a wet cloth and washed off Tux's face. He wasn't breathing hard and his eyes were fully open, yet it seemed clear that he was uncomfortable and was pleased that I was cleaning him up.
P.S. Later I got a bill from Toledo Edison for the recording device that Tux had bitten in half. It cost me a thousand dollars.
P.P.S. Tux died this June. I would happily pay another thousand dollars to have him back...
TunnelRat
"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago
When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago
When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
-
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:01 pm
- Location: Ohio's Fair Fields
I carry FOX OC that can be had in spray,stream,or foam. I like the stream the best as it "jets" out in a narrow stream farther distance-wise and is more resistant to wind effect to a degree. Vance's in Columbus carries it, and it can be had online, but I don't order that way so I don't have any sites at-hand.
Glocks and Nikons. Is this a great country or what!?
-
- OFCC Member
- Posts: 1179
- Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:07 am
- Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
I buy Fox Labs from:
http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/sprays.htm
According to the site:
"Our sprays contain 2% 5,300,000 Oleoresin Capsicum (OC). These are the hottest sprays in the world! Spray patterns available are Splatter Stream & Medium Fog."
Great site and speedy delivery. I carry the 2 oz Fox Labs (stream) with cop top in a nylon belt clip holster they carry. The holster they sell there is pretty nice.
-Kid
http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/sprays.htm
According to the site:
"Our sprays contain 2% 5,300,000 Oleoresin Capsicum (OC). These are the hottest sprays in the world! Spray patterns available are Splatter Stream & Medium Fog."
Great site and speedy delivery. I carry the 2 oz Fox Labs (stream) with cop top in a nylon belt clip holster they carry. The holster they sell there is pretty nice.
-Kid
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
-
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:04 pm
- Location: Dayton area, OH
Per CincinnastyKid's recommendation, I just ordered two 2 oz. Fox Labs flip-tops (one for each car) and added an inert trainer can from Self Defense Products. I liked the idea of practicing before I actually needed it. I think the flip top style may help prevent AD's.
I may look into their holsters another time. Thanks to all of you for your contributions to this discussion!
I may look into their holsters another time. Thanks to all of you for your contributions to this discussion!
-
- OFCC Member
- Posts: 1179
- Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:07 am
- Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Glad I could help!DF_Fan wrote:Per CincinnastyKid's recommendation, I just ordered two 2 oz. Fox Labs flip-tops (one for each car) and added an inert trainer can from Self Defense Products. I liked the idea of practicing before I actually needed it. I think the flip top style may help prevent AD's.
I may look into their holsters another time. Thanks to all of you for your contributions to this discussion!
-Kid
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
-
- Posts: 3548
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:00 am
- Location: S.W. Montgomery county
Kid; You helped me too. I ordered 3 cans of Fox o.c. and holsters too, gonna give 'em to my wife and kid.
Thanks
Thanks
NRA Endowment Member
OFCC Member
"Life is tough, its even tougher when you're stupid"- John Wayne
http://theoldtimeway.blogspot.com/
OFCC Member
"Life is tough, its even tougher when you're stupid"- John Wayne
http://theoldtimeway.blogspot.com/