Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

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schmieg
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by schmieg »

bignflnut wrote:I could ask you the same, in a way: Is there ever a time where you've argued the argument, instead of finding fault with the person bringing it forth?

It is difficult to actually engage the argument, though, isn't it? So much easier to criticize the messenger.


To answer your question directly: I just picked up a few 92F mags that I really enjoy.
I never knew that I needed a place for the weak hand pinky finger to rest, but, wow, is it nice.
If you look through the forums, you will find many places where I advance arguments or offer answers or suggestions. I just get awfully tired of your negativity, often over things that either matter little or cannot easily be rectified without addressing many other issues first.
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

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Think Hillary would have spoken at the NRA convention?

How many anti-gun laws would she have shoved through by now? How many EOs would she have written against semi-autos?

Trump has his flaws, but he is not going to go after guns. Obama left the DOJ and FBI in a massive mess. Let's get back to a constitutional republic, where laws are followed, then we can get things tidied up.

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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by bignflnut »

schmieg wrote: If you look through the forums, you will find many places where I advance arguments or offer answers or suggestions. I just get awfully tired of your negativity, often over things that either matter little or cannot easily be rectified without addressing many other issues first.
To be fair, I get tired of the negativity. I get tired of pointing out the false presupposition that the NRA and POTUS Trump/Team GOP is the friend of the RKBA. I would like nothing more than to report how Liberty is on the march, increasing with each passing election cycle, that our posterity will be better off than we could have dreamed. That's simply not the case. Nobody in the non-liberal media is challenging this presupposition, in fact, they may defend and encourage NRA support.

In order for the RKBA to be healthy, pro-RKBA people must be willing to identify the threats to their Rights, defund them, unplug them from the power structure. Unless and until we are willing to admit that we are in an abusive relationship, we're going to continue on this path towards destruction. I'm chronicling this abuse in real-time because when it comes to election time, people will have forgotten, or soothed themselves by avoiding the alternative.
Mustang380gal wrote:Think Hillary would have spoken at the NRA convention?

How many anti-gun laws would she have shoved through by now? How many EOs would she have written against semi-autos?
What did Trump say or do in that NRA speech that was so all together spectacular? There was a rebuke of European Citizen Disarmament Zones. OK. Do we want that to be the platform of the POTUS, who himself is a rolling Citizen Disarmament Zone?

I don't recall ever advocating for Hillary. Everyone sees that threat. We all agree, properly, on that point.
Do I think she would have banned bump stocks, passed Fix NICS, and encouraged ERPOs? --She would have liked to, but many in the GOP would not have worked with her. On the whole, with judges and all, we would be worse off, yes. However, we are worse off today than we were in 2016, by any objective measure. Can we name one legislative victory? Can we name a judiciary victory?
Mustang380gal wrote:Trump has his flaws, but he is not going to go after guns. Obama left the DOJ and FBI in a massive mess. Let's get back to a constitutional republic, where laws are followed, then we can get things tidied up.
Understatement. It's been said that the GOP is simply 20 years behind the Dems...and if one honestly compares WJ Clinton to Trump, remembering the "Character Matters" chant of the 90's conservative, it's difficult to disagree.

Disagree. He is, by executive fiat, redefining machineguns and demanding the destruction of bump stocks.
We were all ready for Obama to do this, but even he wasn't so brazen. But this man is hailed as a Champion of the 2nd Amendment!

If a Dem discussed Confiscation prior to due process, we'd all be posting about it at length. But, again, because of our false presuppositions that the NRA / Team GOP is on the pro-RKBA side of the ledger and, whew, Hillary isn't in power, we are not so outraged by ERPOs. In fact, we may be MOAR inclined to double down on donating to our abusers.


How long do we get to use this excuse? Is it Trump's economy, yet? I'll even grant you that Trump is attempting to put down a coup. Does this make his fraudulent campaign promises less fraudulent?

At what point do gun ranges and FFLs, not to mention pro-RKBA groups draft a letter rebuking the NRA/Team GOP for failure regarding bump stocks, Fix NICS, and ERPOs, announcing the withholding of further campaign donations and votes unless we get agenda items A, B, and C accomplished? Is that even on the table?

Again, the first step in getting healthy, is to recognize that one is sick. But we're so self-deceived and codified that there are complaints when one points out the disease. I'm trying to take off the blinders and get people to see what's happening when they vote for these people. "Nattering Naybobs of Negativity" is the charge, simply to silence the people who point out that "MAGA" is a false promise.

Isn't this the difference between GOP voters and "low information, single-issue voters" on the other side? GOP voters are supposed to expect results and an improvement in their lives, not generations of empty rhetoric. How can anyone recommend donating to/voting GOP when they produce results in direct opposition to their campaign promises? Aren't we praising Kanye West for breaking free of the group-think that has characterized the other side? He called it a "Democrat Plantation". Are we not on the NRA/GOP plantation? Isn't Kanye to be thanked for challenging that sacred cow? Do we not have one of our own?

I'm all ears, though. If the NRA / Team GOP isn't as hypocritically abusive as I say, engage that argument. If anyone has a plan, using our current structure, to bolster RKBA nationally or in the States, please, bring it forth. If I'm all wet, let me know how. I would love to be wrong. Show me the better way forward. Or shall we simply vote MAGA 2020 and keep rolling along the way we have been?

As always Mustang380gal, I have no quarrel with you personally, I am simply calling a spade a spade, and appreciate your engagement of the issues at hand. We may disagree on the issues, but you are a sincere and dear lady. I trust you only want what's best for the cause.
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

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I do not have the faith in politicians, voters or even the common man to be as disappointed as you seem to be. I tend to be more of a pragmatist, realizing that politics is a lot like calculus. You can approach the goal, but never actually get there. There are always opposing viewpoints and there are always swinging pendulums of public opinion. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made to save the overall movement.

And while facts may be static, perception varies from person to person. When I was practicing law, I would find four witnesses to an event and every one of them would differ in describing what happened. All were sincere and none were lying, but they all saw the event differently. That happens to all of us. Supposedly professionally trained people, such as lawyers and judges, have learned how to evaluate things without letting their personal biases color their decision, but I can tell you that only a few have been successful at that. I can do it if I work very hard at evaluating a question, but it is quite an effort. One of the reasons I never ran for judge is that I don't think I could do it on a daily basis in a lot of cases. As a result, I hesitate to demonize those I disagree with, though it might be personally satisfying. I also can live with minor deviations from a stated position from a politician as I know sometimes discretion is the better part of valor, but that politician must generally stay with his stated position to retain my support. The same is true of organizations for me.

There are those out there that deserve condemnation from our side, but we always must be careful to not amputate an arm when it is only the finger that is infected.
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

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schmieg wrote:There are those out there that deserve condemnation from our side, but we always must be careful to not amputate an arm when it is only the finger that is infected.
To that end, I'll say nothing negative about the educational work the NRA does. Their classes and instructors seem to be of great benefit to RKBA, and this is likely how they gained such standing in the community.

Seems to me that there are multitudes more gun ranges and orgs out there that could do the educational work, and that national orgs should focus more on politics/PR. This is where I think the National NRA and GOP fall woefully short.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

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bignflnut wrote:
schmieg wrote:There are those out there that deserve condemnation from our side, but we always must be careful to not amputate an arm when it is only the finger that is infected.
To that end, I'll say nothing negative about the educational work the NRA does. Their classes and instructors seem to be of great benefit to RKBA, and this is likely how they gained such standing in the community.

Seems to me that there are multitudes more gun ranges and orgs out there that could do the educational work, and that national orgs should focus more on politics/PR. This is where I think the National NRA and GOP fall woefully short.
They are looking at different demographics than we do at the state or local level, but the GOP has never had the killer instinct that the Dems have. The conservative mindset is part of that because you are very hesitant to destroy that which has worked over time. The Dems love to destroy that which has worked over time.
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

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I did not say that you advocated for Hillary. That was the choice, though: Trump or Hillary. We would be far, far worse off in much more that firearms rights if she had won. Obama got much of his dirty work done by EO, and I think Hill would have kept that up. The GOP has no fight in them, so they would not have stopped her. McConnell may even have tried to help her. Trump fights, and he seems to have picked people who fight to work with him. Pompeo brought home hostages from North Korea last night.

I see that there are and have been people in government who don't really care about the people, and want to play nice with mullahs and Euroweenies mostly for power and money. In many ways the kitchen is on fire. Let's not try to paint the living room before we put out the fire in the kitchen.

POTUS has been busy. Many in the DOJ and FBI have resigned/fired. CIA and state also have had some housecleaning done. Have you seen the list of reps and senators who are retiring/resigning/not seeking reelection, including RINO Ryan? Did you wonder why that is?

This is a long game. I want the whole house set in order, and freedoms restored. I don't believe there is a fast-lane method to doing this. It is going to take time and energy. I really hope it will not take blood. After the house is in order, then we can redecorate, and get regulations removed, including the 1934 and 1968 gun control laws. As far as I can tell from the DOJ website, the bumpstock ban is still a proposal. Here's hoping it stays that way.

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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

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..... and the anti-Trumpers are still in their 3-point stance getting ready to defend their 'gun free zone' shtick . :lol:
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

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Mustang380gal wrote:This is a long game. I want the whole house set in order, and freedoms restored. I don't believe there is a fast-lane method to doing this. It is going to take time and energy.
I'm with you.

Image :lol:
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

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FWIW, there are other people saying it, it may not just be my island:
We have to work on multiple fronts, understanding that gun control advocates are also running a long game. Trump has shown his love of executive orders. Why has he not directed the ATF to devote more resources to processing applications to own NFA firearms or to change any of a number of regulations that the agency has the discretion to create? Why are the Republicans in Congress not attaching pro-gun amendments to bills that have to pass?
Where are the results to match the promises that we get year after year?

To quote Elvis, a little less conversation, a little more action, please. Showing up to the NRA convention and claiming to support the Second Amendment isn’t enough. Saying “we’re not Hillary Clinton or Shannon Watts” isn’t enough. That might be sufficient if there were not a movement against guns in this country. We could let things move at a glacial pace on the federal level, leaving the states to score gains. But that’s not the political reality. As things are currently, we push forward or fall back, and if Republicans are going to tell us that they support the Second Amendment, it’s time for them to show results.
The bold may even be a rosy picture, as we continue to lose ground with ERPOs, Fix NICS and bump stocks (and Grand Chessmaster trade-off for reciprocity/suppressors seems to have evaporated, shockingly).
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

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bignflnut wrote:Isn't this the difference between GOP voters and "low information, single-issue voters" on the other side? GOP voters are supposed to expect results and an improvement in their lives, not generations of empty rhetoric. How can anyone recommend donating to/voting GOP when they produce results in direct opposition to their campaign promises? Aren't we praising Kanye West for breaking free of the group-think that has characterized the other side? He called it a "Democrat Plantation". Are we not on the NRA/GOP plantation? Isn't Kanye to be thanked for challenging that sacred cow? Do we not have one of our own?
Walter Williams has a column dedicated to Kanye's breaking free of group-think.
Keeping blacks blind to the folly of unquestioned support for the Democratic Party by keeping blacks fearful, angry and resentful and painting the Republican Party as racist is vital. Democrats never want blacks to seriously ask questions about what the party has done for them. Here are some facts.

SNIP

Democrats
could never afford for a large number of black people to observe, “We've been putting you in charge of our cities for decades. We even put a black Democrat in the White House. And what has it meant for us?
So let's substitute blacks for pro-RKBA (constituency groups)
Sub out Democrat for NRA/GOP (party/group being voted FOR)
Swap Republican for Democrat (party/group being demonized)
And swap racist for gun grabbing tyrants. (similar hyperbolic demonizing terms)
Keeping pro-RKBA voters blind to the folly of unquestioned support for the NRA/Republican Party by keeping pro-RKBA fearful, angry and resentful and painting the Democratic Party as gun grabbing tyrants is vital. NRA/Republicans never want pro-RKBA constituents to seriously ask questions about what the party has done for them. Here are some facts.

SNIP
NRA/GOP could never afford for a large number of pro-RKBA people to observe, “We've been putting you in charge of our cities for decades. We even put a NRA/GOP in the White House. And what has it meant for us?
Put this in context of the Statehouse, Governor's office, Congress, SCOTUS, etc... and it rings very true.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by bignflnut »

Image

Memorial Day is not about those who fell. It's about what they fell defending.

It's about the transcendent truth of human Rights that can flourish under a just government. It's about making certain that the next generation clings to their Liberty more tenaciously than the last, as the lies and deceptions make life more comfortable outside the arena than inside it.

It's an annual reminder of the battle for Freedom.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by curmudgeon3 »

The single most telling blow against anti-RKBA Socialists in the last twelve years was delivered by Pres. Donald J. Trump when He blocked the return of the clintons to the White House and initiated his drain-the-swamp agenda. (And He's not finished yet.)
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by bignflnut »

This is my 500th. Day in Office and we have accomplished a lot - many believe more than any President in his first 500 days. Massive Tax & Regulation Cuts, Military & Vets, Lower Crime & Illegal Immigration, Stronger Borders, Judgeships, Best Economy & Jobs EVER, and much more...
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 4, 2018
Still no movement on suppressors, reciprocity, or the aforementioned "Gun Free Zones".
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by bignflnut »

President Donald Trumpsaid Friday he is considering posthumously pardoning boxer Muhammad Ali, who was convicted in 1967 after refusing military service in Vietnam.

Trump floated the possibility while speaking to reporters at the White House before departing for the Group of Seven summit.

"I'm thinking about Muhammad Ali. I'm thinking about that very seriously and some others," he said.
HEY BUDDY!

Start thinking about reciprocity, bump stocks (you know you've destroyed a manufacturing company, right), suppressors, and, you know, helping the living to be more free!
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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