Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Mustang380gal » Tue May 12, 2015 8:41 pm

Mr. Glock wrote:Glock carrying cops will just stare at it....now, Sig and Beretta carrying cops might think of a decocker. :lol:

Pretty obvious that I have never really looked at a Glock, eh?

Oh, and my Sig has a safety. It's a 1911 style. 8)
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby gaptrick » Wed May 13, 2015 2:55 pm

I purchased a new, modern (2010 or so?) Kimber that doesn't have a firing pin block safety. I love it and hope not to drop it. I would feel the same if I purchased a 1945 Colt 1911.

An educated consumer is what's needed here. Every one has their own homework to do when deciding on purchasing a firearm regardless of what it is. Mothballing or destroying these because of a perceived safety issue is, if not the beginning of the end, a start much akin to banning green tip .223... there would be no end in sight.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Mustang380gal » Wed May 13, 2015 4:32 pm

Ted is a big 1911 fan, which should not be surprising if you attended the Fun n Gun 2 years ago and saw his and hers Detonics. I asked him about the drop thing.

From the studies that he has read, the gun has to land on the muzzle flat downward from 11 feet before the firing pin will strike. It is not from any fall, but a fall from 11 FEET flat onto the muzzle at a 90 degree angle to the ground. The gun has to hit a hard surface like cement, not dirt. When it lands, if it would go off, it is pointing DOWN.

They have been using 1911s in some form or another for 114 years, and there are not massive numbers of drops causing injury reported.

Based on what Mr1911 has read, it's much ado about nothing.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Bama.45 » Wed May 13, 2015 5:06 pm

If you drop some revolvers from around the same era that don't have a transfer bar or hammer block in them, they can go off...There was a Victory model .38 dropped and landed on a the hard deck of a Navy ship and went off...They started putting hammer blocks in S&W around 1945.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Wed May 13, 2015 6:27 pm

Mustang380gal wrote:From the studies that he has read, the gun has to land on the muzzle flat downward from 11 feet before the firing pin will strike. It is not from any fall, but a fall from 11 FEET flat onto the muzzle at a 90 degree angle to the ground. The gun has to hit a hard surface like cement, not dirt. When it lands, if it would go off, it is pointing DOWN.


He stopped reading studies too soon. He missed the one done by Drake's gun works (results referenced here) showing primer ignition from as little as 4', and that was using an extra strength firing pin spring. Also the one referenced in post # 2 here showing discharges at 6 feet. Or the very well documented real world incident I referenced a few pages back where the gun dropped from about waist height.

The CA drop tests are done from about 3.3 feet yet 1911 manufacturers aren't confident enough in their guns to put them through that test without either adding a FPS or using a titanium pin and extra strength spring. Some people have claimed that was just them listening to their lawyers, but that doesn't explain why Kimber continued to sell series 1 guns outside of CA but only series 2 guns in CA.

There's a big difference between "it would be very rare" and "it can't happen".

Bama.45 wrote:If you drop some revolvers from around the same era that don't have a transfer bar or hammer block in them, they can go off...There was a Victory model .38 dropped and landed on a the hard deck of a Navy ship and went off...They started putting hammer blocks in S&W around 1945.


It had a hammer block, but it could be rendered inoperable if dirt, grease, etc. got inside the mechanism. After a sailor was killed when one was dropped and discharged S&W redesigned the lock.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Werz » Thu May 14, 2015 1:19 am

DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Mustang380gal wrote:From the studies that he has read, the gun has to land on the muzzle flat downward from 11 feet before the firing pin will strike. It is not from any fall, but a fall from 11 FEET flat onto the muzzle at a 90 degree angle to the ground. The gun has to hit a hard surface like cement, not dirt. When it lands, if it would go off, it is pointing DOWN.

He stopped reading studies too soon. He missed the one done by Drake's gun works (results referenced here) showing primer ignition from as little as 4', and that was using an extra strength firing pin spring. Also the one referenced in post # 2 here showing discharges at 6 feet. Or the very well documented real world incident I referenced a few pages back where the gun dropped from about waist height.

And yet, an MRI magnet bore can defeat a Colt Series 80 firing pin safety. There are no guarantees.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Klingon00 » Thu May 14, 2015 10:25 am

Those MRI magnets are nothing to goof around with.

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UPDATE Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Bruenor » Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:38 pm

Still a long wait if they manage to get a signature..

https://www.facebook.com/TheCMP.org/pos ... 0316719786

Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP)
Yesterday at 1:21pm ·

An update on the 1911’s…IT HAS PASSED THE SENATE!

The legislation has passed both the House and Senate. It will now head to the President’s desk for signature. If signed, we will meet with Army to develop procedures. All of this will take time. We have no further information. When information becomes available we will communicate with our customers.

Thank you,
Mark Johnson
Chief Operating Officer
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby djurz33 » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:47 pm

Great Hussein is is going to destroy a piece of American history. Those pistols will probably make there way to the nearest blast furnace. Two things I do know. 1) Those pistols would sell out quick. 2) We have better odds of learning the identity of the 2nd shooter on the grassy knoll than having that buffoon sign the paper. They have no problem selling them to another country, but they won't sell law abiding trained Americans a piece of their own history.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Bruenor » Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:53 pm

It made it through as part of the NDAA, and 'O' has signed it..

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015 ... y-miracle/

On November 25th, 2015, President Barack Obama has signed into law the National Defense Authorization Act of 2016, included in which is a provision for the Civilian Marksmanship to sell 1911 handguns to the United States shooting public. The bill includes Section 1087, which allows the transfer of handguns from the United States Army to the Civilian Marksmanship program, and the subsequent distribution of those handguns to members of CMP-affiliated clubs:


No clue how long this will take to actually implement and for them to start selling.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Brian D. » Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:58 pm

The authorization is for a maximum of 10,000 per year, total number in military possession right now supposedly around 100,000. But before turning any over for sale armorers will have to see how many of the pistols are safe for use.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby JustaShooter » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:02 pm

The CMP has said (on their FB page if I recall) that it will be a year or more before they begin offering them to the public.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby synack2 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:27 pm

Already got one. I don't know if its the A1 or just a 1911. It was made in 1921 according to the serial number. Great uncle carried it for 20 years through WWII and was in Africa and then Europe and it wen from Normandy to Berlin. He then carried it for another 7 years in the reserves until he died in a car accident, my grandpa gave it to my dad and I inherited it from him. It needs a new firing pin though and it is rough. It looks like it got beat around for 27 years and went through a war.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby JU-87 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:59 am

Ans to original post: No.

But I'm glad the CMP will get them. This will raise money for the National Matches, and many other programs that the CMP supports.

Check them out at:
www.the cmp.org
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Bruenor » Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:50 pm

Possible trouble for the Govt 1911's, and many other govt surplus firearms..

In final markup, the bill kept the original recommendations in Section 311 and added a few more including a provision ordering that, within 90 days of the bill becoming law, the Army would transfer almost all of the surplus guns it held at Anniston to Rock Island for meltdown. The only exceptions would be for up to 2,000 M1911 pistols and 2,000 M14 rifles that could be donated to military museums for preservation.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-con ... ultIndex=1

subtitle E—Other matters

SEC. 331. Repurposing and reuse of surplus military firearms.

(a) Army transfers.—

(1) REQUIRED TRANSFER.—Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, and subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the Secretary of the Army shall transfer to Rock Island Arsenal all excess firearms, related spare parts and components, small arms ammunition, and ammunition components currently stored at Defense Distribution Depot, Anniston, Alabama, that are no longer actively issued for military service.

(2) REPURPOSING AND REUSE.—The items specified for transfer under paragraph (1) shall be melted and repurposed for military use as determined by the Secretary of the Army, including—

(A) the re-forging of new firearms or their components; and

(B) force protection barriers and security bollards.

(3) TRANSFER FOR HISTORICAL PURPOSES.—Notwithstanding paragraphs (1) and (2), the Secretary may transfer up to 2,000 surplus caliber .45 M1911/M1911A1 pistols and 2,000 M–14 Rifles to a military museum for display and preservation.

(4) ITEMS EXEMPT FROM TRANSFER.—M–1 Garand and caliber .22 rimfire rifles are not subject to the transfer requirement under paragraph (1).

(b) Navy transfers.—Section 40728 of title 36, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:

“(i) Authorized Navy transfers.—

“(1) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding subsections (a) and (b), the Secretary of the Navy may transfer to the corporation, in accordance with the procedures prescribed in this subchapter, M–1 Garand and caliber .22 rimfire rifles held within the inventories of the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps and stored at Defense Distribution Depot, Anniston, Alabama, or Naval Surface Warfare Center, Crane, Indiana, as of the date of the enactment of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2017.

“(2) USE AS MARKSMANSHIP TROPHIES.—The items specified for transfer under paragraph (1) shall be used as awards for competitors in marksmanship competitions held by the United States Marine Corps or the United States Navy and may not be resold.”.



The Senate version of the bill now heads to be reconciled against the House measure which included an amendment (Sect. 1092) from U.S. Rep. Mike Rogers, an Alabama Republican who represents the Anniston area, mandating the Army speed up the transfer of the M1911s earmarked for the CMP past the initial 10,000 authorized by last year’s spending bill.
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