Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Mr. Glock » Mon May 11, 2015 8:54 pm

I'd buy one, most likely, because it would be a piece of history. Conventional wisdom says they are all pretty ratted out. But I've also heard there were some that were much better than average. Who knows? Not us.

I owned a Colt 1991A1 back in the day...which would be right around 1991 when it came out. Old school in the sense you bought it and took it to the gunsmith. But there was something cool about the gun in its mil-spec plainness (other than the Series 80 safety and it was a low point in Colt's quality.) With a decent set of sights, and some reliability work, it made a nice carry/ desk gun.

The gun store guy at my LGS, where I bought the 1991, carried a WW2 Singer 1911 as his EDC. Hmmm.....
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby markshere2 » Mon May 11, 2015 8:57 pm

DontTreadOnMe wrote:A new avenue to put tons of not-drop-safe guns in civilians' hands. Hurray.


?!?

Funny how Mr. "Give me liberty or give me death" Icon is willing to restrict mere "civilians" from having a dangerous firearm.

The Irony... it burns!
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Mon May 11, 2015 10:06 pm

markshere2 wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:A new avenue to put tons of not-drop-safe guns in civilians' hands. Hurray.


?!?

Funny how Mr. "Give me liberty or give me death" Icon is willing to restrict mere "civilians" from having a dangerous firearm.

The Irony... it burns!


Yet you're not arguing the point, so it's unclear to me what part of "liberty" is involved with releasing guns to the public that aren't drop-safe. Freedom of choice? Maybe but that assumes people have the information to make that choice, which isn't at all apparent to me.

Isn't there a term for the kind of false argument that involves making negative remarks about the person instead of the argument? Oh, found it
An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments. When used inappropriately, it is a fallacy in which a claim or argument is dismissed on the basis of some irrelevant fact or supposition about the author or the person being criticized.


Stay classy.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Brian D. » Tue May 12, 2015 7:43 am

I see the 1911/1911A1 design as less drop safe than newer guns out there. But not to the degree that I'd hesitate to carry one or recommend them for others to do so.

By the way, "Old Slabsides" has plenty of company in this regard to relative safety. In fact across the spectrum of rifles, shotguns and handguns, too many to start listing. To me it is something to keep in mind but not get wrapped around the axle about if safe handling practices are in play.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Tue May 12, 2015 10:36 am

You're right that it's not a hard line between is/isn't drop safe, and that some other guns have similar issues. Of course most of those are long guns that don't pose the same public risk as carry handguns (given the relative infrequency of long guns being carried loaded in public). Others, like the pre-WW2 S&W revolvers, were pulled from service and replaced once the risk was known.

You're aware of the higher risk and are willing to assume that risk. I personally disagree with that choice given the large # of options available which don't carry that higher risk, but I don't object to you making it (I support your ability to make that informed choice ; I'd object if it actually dropped & fired and you then pled ignorance or blamed the equipment).

My concern is that many gun owners don't have that info, and thousands of these guns going into commercial channels increases the odds of them going to people who aren't aware of the higher risk. There can't be true freedom of choice when information is withheld that would inform that choice.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Bruenor » Tue May 12, 2015 1:33 pm

I would think most people purchasing through the CMP program would be very familiar with these firearms. It's not like they are being dumped into the bargain bin in a big-box store.

I'd personally love an assortment from various manufacturers, and one to use as a 'project' gun.

Is there a possibility I could get a Singer 1911 though this program if it ever materializes ? that would absolutely rock.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Brian D. » Tue May 12, 2015 2:16 pm

Bruenor wrote:Is there a possibility I could get a Singer 1911 though this program if it ever materializes ? that would absolutely rock.


There was one run of what, 500 of those? I'll climb out on a limb here and say your odds of getting a Singer are about the same as winning two multi state lottery jackpots.

By the way if you ever get serious about hunting one down there are probably ten fakes for every genuine Singer. From other forums' pictures I've seen, an aspiring collector would have to be pretty savvy to tell the difference between some of those phonies and the real thing.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Tweed Ring » Tue May 12, 2015 2:42 pm

My wish is even more difficult. I'd like a Singer with the WW 2 Transportation Corps logo on it.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Brian D. » Tue May 12, 2015 2:55 pm

During World War I a manufacturer in Canada (North American Arms Company Limited) got a small contract, like Singer, for the original 1911 configuration. I don't even know anybody who knows anybody who claims to have eyeballed one of those in person!
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Tweed Ring » Tue May 12, 2015 3:21 pm

Brian D. wrote:During World War I a manufacturer in Canada (North American Arms Company Limited) got a small contract, like Singer, for the original 1911 configuration. I don't even know anybody who knows anybody who claims to have eyeballed one of those in person!


My grandfather carried a Singer .45 in WW 2. When he passed, it went to my cousin. When my cousin passed, it went to my aunt, then never to be seen again.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Bama.45 » Tue May 12, 2015 3:51 pm

Along those lines I'd like to have one of the old GM made "grease guns"..I know I'd need a tax stamp for it.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Mustang380gal » Tue May 12, 2015 4:24 pm

Mr. Glock wrote:The gun store guy at my LGS, where I bought the 1991, carried a WW2 Singer 1911 as his EDC. Hmmm.....


Jaw drop!

I am a fan of antique Singer sewing machines, and would love--LOVE a Singer 1911!
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Mustang380gal » Tue May 12, 2015 4:32 pm

DontTreadOnMe wrote:You're right that it's not a hard line between is/isn't drop safe, and that some other guns have similar issues. Of course most of those are long guns that don't pose the same public risk as carry handguns (given the relative infrequency of long guns being carried loaded in public). Others, like the pre-WW2 S&W revolvers, were pulled from service and replaced once the risk was known.

You're aware of the higher risk and are willing to assume that risk. I personally disagree with that choice given the large # of options available which don't carry that higher risk, but I don't object to you making it (I support your ability to make that informed choice ; I'd object if it actually dropped & fired and you then pled ignorance or blamed the equipment).

My concern is that many gun owners don't have that info, and thousands of these guns going into commercial channels increases the odds of them going to people who aren't aware of the higher risk. There can't be true freedom of choice when information is withheld that would inform that choice.


If someone is going through the CMP for firearms, then I would be willing to bet that they have a decent understanding of them, and what risks they do or do not hold.

The only concern that I have as one who has carried a 1911 for most of the 11 years that I have had my license is that Glock-carrying cops may think my safety is a decocker, and have a ND.

We have a old 1911A1 that has long distance target sights on it. It is accurate. They aren't all minute-of-milk-jug accuracy.
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby Mr. Glock » Tue May 12, 2015 5:28 pm

Glock carrying cops will just stare at it....now, Sig and Beretta carrying cops might think of a decocker. :lol:
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Re: Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Tue May 12, 2015 6:03 pm

Mustang380gal wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:My concern is that many gun owners don't have that info, and thousands of these guns going into commercial channels increases the odds of them going to people who aren't aware of the higher risk. There can't be true freedom of choice when information is withheld that would inform that choice.


If someone is going through the CMP for firearms, then I would be willing to bet that they have a decent understanding of them, and what risks they do or do not hold.


As I mentioned earlier in the thread it's not so much the people who buy directly from the CMP for their own use. It's about the people who take advantage of the 12 guns / year limit and resell them to non-CMP members (and pretty much everybody, including the CMP, knows this happens). Still even for CMP purchases it wouldn't be unreasonable (IMO) for their to be some type of notice (maybe somewhere on the purchasing page and in a note that comes with the gun).

FWIW I like the idea of them going to the CMP. I think it's good fiscal sense and good for collectors. NDs are already a problem though (at least a perception/political problem for the rest of us when it happens to someone else) and I'd like to see some effort taken to minimize an increase.
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