Would you like to have a Gov. 1911A1?

[DontTreadOnMe]

A new avenue to put tons of not-drop-safe guns in civilians' hands. Hurray.

Quite ironic that you, with a screen name of "DontTreadOnMe" would say that...

I was going to use DontAccidentallyShootMeWithYourGunThatIsntSafeForCarry but it's too hard to type.

[TJW815]

A new avenue to put tons of not-drop-safe guns in civilians' hands. Hurray.

Quite ironic that you, with a screen name of "DontTreadOnMe" would say that...

I was going to use DontAccidentallyShootMeWithYourGunThatIsntSafeForCarry but it's too hard to type.

Funny...

You know plenty of GIs carried that weapon... I'm sure not more than a few shot themselves in the leg.

[DontTreadOnMe]

Your comment is exactly my concern - out of a sense of nostalgia, fondness or whatever lots of folks are going to say "look at how many people didn't shoot themselves - it's not an issue". It's not drop safe. The manufacturer changed it to be drop safe, people have had documented NDs from dropping, and it's been recreated in tests.

The problem will only be multiplied as thousands go on sale and flood a consumer market (and yes CMP guns are resold to consumers, let's not pretend they aren't) to go into the hands of (in many cases) new gun owners who aren't even aware of the issue.

Blind ignorance of safety concerns isn't something to be proud of.

[AlanM]

Would someone please provide a link to a reputable source of cases where people were ACTUALLY shot by dropped series 79 style 1911s.
NOT cases where some jackwagon probably shot himself by mishandling the gun and passed it off by saying that he dropped it but ACTUAL provable cases.

You might want to read this: The Firing Line Forums: Series 70 1911's...drop safe?
Specifically post #6.

Then read this:Inertial Discharge of the M1911 Pistol
This is almost exactly the style of experiments I'd like to see a student do for a science fair project.
And also proves to me that I'm correct in thinking that a titanium firing pin for a 1911 is just marketing hype as far as being light weight goes, higher breaking strength on the other hand is a viable selling point even though I've not heard of many 1911 firing pins breaking.


I have more I'd like to say on this subject but I'm about to be AFK for about 5 days and I'm packing so don't expect a response from me for a while.

[Mr. Glock]

Military rifle firing pins free-float too. Most/All...and they are not too light as they need mass to strike off some the harder military primers.

[DontTreadOnMe]

Would someone please provide a link to a reputable source of cases where people were ACTUALLY shot by dropped series 79 style 1911s.
NOT cases where some jackwagon probably shot himself by mishandling the gun and passed it off by saying that he dropped it but ACTUAL provable cases.

It's a real long read but
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/154593 ... tml&page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bama.45]

Isnt the whole 1911 drop fix installing a titanium firing pin?... Isnt that the up to date fix that all modern 1911 manufacturers do?..

[AlanM]

My post earlier should have said Series 70 NOT Series 79!!!
Here I am at 0300 correcting a typo when I've got a 7 hour (at best) drive starting in 3 hours.

For a free floating firing pin to set off a primer due to the shock of dropping, not even taking into consideration the HUGE G forces required to get the firing pin to move far enough, requires that the gun hit a solid object almost exactly muzzle first. (Over a 1000 Gs)
Someone explain to me how said gun at that angle is going to fire a round that will hit someone with enough force to cause them major damage?
Mythbusters had shown the the myth of the fatal ricochet is difficult to produce, even against the hard surface of hardened steel, no less a typical floor surface. And they were using a solid ransom rest to hold the gun NOT one free floating in the air.

Now, the possibility of a 1911 going off by falling muzzle up is even more fantastical since the gun would have to hit such that the palm safety was depressed and then hit with enough force that the inertia of the trigger assembly is enough to overcome the trigger spring and friction of the sear such that the sear releases and stays back long enough for the half cock notch to be cleared and the hammer to actually strike the firing pin.

I just took a look at that thread on Arfcom and this picture: http://f.cl.ly/items/083x0H1K3x2n1B1m3t3l/photo-5.png
shows me that the safety isn't fully in the frame it's out at least 1/16th of an inch (2.5mm on my slide) from the frame for the slide to have gotten back to the position shown. Also, given how lightly he's holding that gun the slide isn't being pushed back by something out of sight which means that it is STUCK in that position. I can't even imagine what the H*** has to happen to a 1911 to bind up the slide like that.
Side note: Nighthawk Custom 1911s are on Gunbroker.com in the $3000+ range.

This, BTW, is why I carry my guns in OWB paddle holsters so I don't have to unholster to use a bathroom stall. Since I almost always us a handicapped stall the assist rails are at just the right distance from the wall to give a nice safe place to put the holstered firearm.
Why don't I leave it on my belt? Well with the limited strength I have in one hand getting my pants back up and everything tucked in and fastened is problematical enough without adding 2 and half pounds of dead weight on one side to the mix.
Oh, and if I carry concealed I just wear a jacket or over shirt.

[Brian D.]

Cool as it would be to have a vintage 1911, I wonder how the price would stack up against today's modern versions? Plus, most of the G.I. vintage guns are likely in need of at least some level of rebuild. In many cases I'd say quite a bit of rebuild. Let's say the DCM is able to sell such guns, you want to make a decent shooter out them you'd end up sinking at minimum a new barrel and some parts into the project, adding $200, $300, maybe more?

[deanimator]

It's not drop safe.

Then don't drop it.

[deanimator]

Anybody who's afraid to carry an M1911 is perfectly free not to.

They've got NO business making that choice for anybody else.

[BobK]

I personally have no desire to purchase 70+ year old service 1911's that are well known for the extraordinary sloppy and rattling slide fit, hard wear, and "minute-of-barn-wall" accuracy. I remember well that gunsmiths used to make a good living just from adding features in their "reliability", "accurizing", or "carry" packages back in the 70's/80's/90''s. The same kinds of features that now come standard from modern quality 1911 manufacturers. I would not purchase a CMP-sourced service pistol.

That said, I fully support the choice for anyone else who wants to buy them. Free choice. Free markets. God Bless America!

[mreising]

A new avenue to put tons of not-drop-safe guns in civilians' hands. Hurray.

Quite ironic that you, with a screen name of "DontTreadOnMe" would say that...

That was the exact same thought I had. Besides, don't those 1911s have that handle clamp safety thingy?

[DontTreadOnMe]

Isnt the whole 1911 drop fix installing a titanium firing pin?... Isnt that the up to date fix that all modern 1911 manufacturers do?..

Yes that makes them less likely to fire if dropped from person heights.

It's not drop safe.

Then don't drop it.

Brilliant, why didn't everyone who's ever dropped a gun think of that?

That said, I fully support the choice for anyone else who wants to buy them. Free choice. Free markets. God Bless America!

I don't object to them being sold. I'm simply not looking forward to the increased NDs that will come from thousands of them being sold and moving into the consumer market to be carried by people who are unaware of the risk. Or the negative consequences that are likely to affect the rest of us as gun-related deaths exceed automotive-related deaths nationwide (apples & oranges arguments aside, it's a statistic that will resonate with the average voter, and not in a way that's good for gun-rights).

Besides, don't those 1911s have that handle clamp safety thingy?

If you mean the grip safety then yes they do, but that doesn't make them drop safe. It prevents the trigger from moving, it does nothing to prevent discharges due to the firing pin moving forward due to inertia and striking the primer.

[TJW815]

DTOM, the anti's make a strikingly similar argument. If we didn't sell any guns then nobody would get shot...


Sometimes your just have to stop protecting people from themselves and let Darwin win.

No matter the gun, if you try hard enough you can make it discharge in a manner not recommended.