OhioCCW Forums Changes

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OhioCCW Forums Changes

Postby jgarvas » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:31 pm

Important New Policy Changes Below

As you may have already noticed the OhioCCW Forums are going through some changes tonight.

These changes are being made in light of recent discussion among the moderation staff, the coordinators, the Board of Directors, and the organization's legal counsel. These changes were made after considering the organization's risks of liability, the risk of liability to our cause, and while attempting to maintain an environment where controversial topics can still be discussed with civility.

Emphasis has been placed on the overall cause of gun owner rights and legislation, as well as a renewed effort to reform the image that this forum presents to the general public and new OFCC members who have been providing us feedback on their impressions of the forums. The first phase of the changes to the forums took place tonight and include the following:

  • A complete re-organization of the layout of the discussion forums and one or two new forums.
  • A renaming of some areas of the forums to better define what their intent moving forward is.
  • The Ohio and National political forums are hereby limited to firearms politics and legislation.
  • Changes to the For Sale forums are coming later this month - more news later.
  • The Ohio Open Carry Discussion forum is now only visible once a user is logged into the forums.
  • The "cop bashing" posts anywhere on the forums (but typically related to OC) will be deleted without warning. Multiple occurrences will result in account termination.
  • The organization of impromptu open carry gatherings on OhioCCW Forums must be submitted and approved by Ohioans For Concealed Carry.

Historically, Ohioans For Concealed Carry has used restraint with respect to using open carry walks to protest an event or lack of action. Recently, a trend has occurred here where open carry walks and/or "protests" are being coordinated at a frequent pace. A more troubling problem is when a community, business, or other entity is found to be in violation of the law and the first reaction is to hold an open carry walk. These discussions have even resulted in some aggressive people contacting community leaders with colorful or threatening legal challenges without allowing OFCC the opportunity to diplomatically and civilly discuss the confusion - which forces us to enter the discussion on the defensive because of other's behavior.

When open carry walks / events are coordinated on our forums it is easily presumed by the casual visitor that OFCC has sanctioned, approved, and/or formally been involved in these activities. The same perception can be made by the private property owner or government entity where a open carry walk is coordinated, leaving the organization in a position it did not choose to enter into or may have coordinated differently than those done by the community on a whim.

In a worst case scenario, a community organized event primarily gathered within these forums in which Ohioans For Concealed Carry leadership had no involvement or intent to organize could potentially put the organization at risk of litigation it did not choose to become involved in: http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2011/02/18/lawsuit-against-michigan-open-carry/

It is for these reasons that this policy has been discussed at length and will be adopted immediately. While we will not immediately delete the details of the event that has been discussed for this weekend, the further discussion of these events on OhioCCWForums.org will be locked and new threads will be prohibited.

The TOS & Forum Rules will be updated to reflect these changes in the near future, but the moderation staff will begin to enforce these rules immediately.

* Ohioans For Concealed Carry is not opposed to Open Carry. The act is obviously lawful in Ohio, and this organization has gone to bat for Open Carry quite often, most recently using it in Campbell, Ohio. We have privately and sometimes publicly worked to resolve open carry conflicts with various cities and we have arranged legal representation for many wrongfully harassed or charged.
Jeff Garvas, President
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Contrary to a popular belief when I brag about OFCC accomplishments I'm not looking for your thank you or personal recognition. I'd much prefer you send me an email telling me when you are going to get involved in doing what I've been doing since 1999. We are only as effective as we make ourselves. We need the next generation of OFCC to step to the plate.

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Re: OhioCCW Forums Changes

Postby ATGglobal » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:42 pm

Sounds like some great changes.
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Re: WHY?

Postby ATGglobal » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:44 pm

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=50551

This will explain it all
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I can't believe the Officer cuffed me and threw me in the back of his car when I clearly called Shotgun

"With officers laid off and furloughed, simply calling 911 and waiting is no longer your best option," Milwaukee County Sheriff David A. Clarke Jr.

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Re: WHY?

Postby jamie9mm » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:54 pm

My opinion only! Sounds like the organization is trying to distance it's self from OC, while that's probably not the case I hope it doesn't discourage members from returning.

So are we forbidden to OC at the meet and greets,or are we forbidden to post about meet and greets now to?

ETA: mods maybe you should move this over to the related thread since I missed it.
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Re: OhioCCW Forums Changes

Postby jamie9mm » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:01 am

Could one define cop bashing please? Opinions may very and since there will be no warnings maybe some clear guide lines should be set forth.
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Re: OhioCCW Forums Changes

Postby Jake » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:20 am

We're trying direct our focus on the forums to primarily a "single issue" (gun owner rights and legislation).
While there may be an adjustment period, I think it's best for the organization.
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Re: OhioCCW Forums Changes

Postby jgarvas » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:29 am

jamie9mm wrote:Could one define cop bashing please? Opinions may very and since there will be no warnings maybe some clear guide lines should be set forth.


Cop Bashing is when the line between discussing efforts to education law enforcement on the laws of Ohio are crossed into personal attacks, grouping cops into a class of ignorant people with an agenda, etc. Basically, many OC/LEO encounters result in a police officer doing what they believe is right and the OC'er feeling their rights were violated.

This often turns into rhetoric and inflamed posts that are unnecessary discussion anywhere on these forums. If you have issues with the way a police officer behaves the most logical thing to do is to complain to their superiors in a professional and civil manner. Too often we see the officer in question being the "target" of the response, instead of a well thought out meaningful plan of educating the city and officers as a whole.

In every single case where OFCC has "gone to bat" with bull headed or "ignorant of the open carry law" cops we've been able to have frank discussions with superiors that resulted in an outcome that was acceptable to all of the parties involved without bashing the profession or the officer in question. This is the type of discussion about resolving these conflicts we believe is within acceptable bounds. Personally bashing the cops for their job is silly -- go read chapter 29 of the Ohio Revised Code and tell me how much of it you can memorize and recite in a heartbeat at any given moment while trying to do your job, especially in light of the fact that Ohio's gun laws have changed frequently in the past ten years more so than they had in the 90 before that.
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Ohioans For Concealed Carry

Contrary to a popular belief when I brag about OFCC accomplishments I'm not looking for your thank you or personal recognition. I'd much prefer you send me an email telling me when you are going to get involved in doing what I've been doing since 1999. We are only as effective as we make ourselves. We need the next generation of OFCC to step to the plate.

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Re: OhioCCW Forums Changes

Postby jamie9mm » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:34 am

I'm not trying to be disgruntle honestly I'm not but when talking with many members in person on the phone or email what is said is felt by many. That's real no way around it. This organization has done some truly wonderful things and I hope it continues to add members...
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Re: OhioCCW Forums Changes

Postby BobK » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:42 am

Jeff and other OFCC brass, I welcome and support your adjustments described above.
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Re: WHY?

Postby DOA33 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:15 am

jamie9mm wrote:
So are we forbidden to OC at the meet and greets,or are we forbidden to post about meet and greets now to?.

I was wondering same thing while reading the other thread.
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Re: WHY?

Postby JediSkipdogg » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:32 am

DOA33 wrote:
jamie9mm wrote:
So are we forbidden to OC at the meet and greets,or are we forbidden to post about meet and greets now to?.

I was wondering same thing while reading the other thread.


I take it forbidden from planning OC walks for the purpose of getting a point across to a business or law enforcement agency. I seem to get the idea that if you are planning an event at say Hueston Woods for the purpose of meeting people here or planning a dinner at Golden Corral that's fine. Now, if someone posts that Golden Corral banned them when they open carried and then next week someone wants to do an open carry eat, that's not allowed.
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Re: WHY?

Postby Joshs9mXD » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:33 am

Wow really I liked the old way this was organized. Kind of want to go look at the other forums. :evil:
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Re: WHY?

Postby MrMagoo » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:04 am

jamie9mm wrote:My opinion only! Sounds like the organization is trying to distance it's self from OC, while that's probably not the case I hope it doesn't discourage members from returning.

So are we forbidden to OC at the meet and greets,or are we forbidden to post about meet and greets now to?

ETA: mods maybe you should move this over to the related thread since I missed it.
OFCC is not trying to distance itself from OC. The organization is protecting itself. Re-read the first part of Jeff's post, the part that says "These changes were made after considering the organization's risks of liability, the risk of liability to our cause, and while attempting to maintain an environment where controversial topics can still be discussed with civility." OFCC does not want to be in a position of possibly being involved in litigation that was not chosen by OFCC. By planning and organizing OC events on the OFCC forums, the organization is perceived as supporting the event and puts the organization in the position of becoming invovled in unwanted litigation.

We all know OC is legal. No one said a person is forbidden from OC at a meet and greet. Just don't use the forum to plan and coordinate an OC event.
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Re: WHY?

Postby Joshs9mXD » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:38 am

But meet and greets are fine,We can plan them on here? :!:
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Re: WHY?

Postby gmhiggins » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:25 am

MrMagoo wrote:We all know OC is legal. No one said a person is forbidden from OC at a meet and greet. Just don't use the forum to plan and coordinate an OC event.


At all or without permission?
The organization of impromptu open carry gatherings on OhioCCW Forums must be submitted and approved by Ohioans For Concealed Carry.
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