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Colt45 wrote:Jeez guys, it's just a T-shirt. Maybe the kid just likes the way it looked. Or maybe he just wanted to "freak out the squares". It's like the punk rockers in the '70s wearing Nazi accessories. It's got nothing to do with politics.
I have a black T-shirt with a big red star on it and I'm complete free market capitalist. But I have an appreciation for authoritarian iconography and design. Sure, the Nazis were complete bastards and wrong in so many ways, but damn did they look sharp.
Besides, what's the difference between that and flying the confederate flag?
I am quite CONFIDENT you are right.
If they had an inkling what the history was behind those symbols they' would have nothing to do with them.
It's just a stupid statement, made by adolescent adults who have not yet learned much.
When I was a child I spake as a child.
A child cannot be held responsible for his/her ignorance.....they're born with it.
Colt45 you have to understand that some on here either went out of country in the 60's-70's or like me had friends a little older that had to go and the trip back home was sometimes very degrading after having been in that hell hole meat grinder they HAD to go to. I was fortunate to only have to sign up for the draft but not go! You just need a sense of understanding for what the ones that served went through while there and after they came home. Not to take away from those serving now as I for one really feel for them. I see kids get to come home only to have to go back and finish the tour. I'm not sure I could come home and then go back. Here is hoping no service person ever is treated like the guys that came back from Vietnam but I'm seeing things starting to turn back to looking the way things did then.That is IMHO why you see some get so haired up over the shirts and symbols. I can introduce you to a few friends that get pretty upset over the stars and bars also. It is all a matter of what personal experience you relate a symbol to. Or anyway that is my take on it.
Willy P wrote:Colt45 you have to understand that some on here either went out of country in the 60's-70's or like me had friends a little older that had to go and the trip back home was sometimes very degrading after having been in that hell hole meat grinder they HAD to go to. I was fortunate to only have to sign up for the draft but not go! You just need a sense of understanding for what the ones that served went through while there and after they came home. Not to take away from those serving now as I for one really feel for them. I see kids get to come home only to have to go back and finish the tour. I'm not sure I could come home and then go back. Here is hoping no service person ever is treated like the guys that came back from Vietnam but I'm seeing things starting to turn back to looking the way things did then.That is IMHO why you see some get so haired up over the shirts and symbols. I can introduce you to a few friends that get pretty upset over the stars and bars also. It is all a matter of what personal experience you relate a symbol to. Or anyway that is my take on it.
Anyone who has a problem with the "stars and bars" should leave this country and live somewhere that suits them better.
If this country is such a pain in the butt to live in by all means....leave it.
Petrofergov wrote:Anyone who has a problem with the "stars and bars" should leave this country and live somewhere that suits them better.
Uh, actually that's what the Stars and Bars people originally proposed.
We convinced them not to do it...
TunnelRat
"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago
When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
Willy, I totally understand why some people, particularly vets, get upset when they see those symbols being worn as fashion statements. I also understand that I have the freedom to make said fashion statement precisely because of their sacrifice. Just as anyone has the freedom to criticize me for doing so. But if neither party took advantage of that freedom, those men will have died for nothing.
My problem with flying the confederate flag is not what it stands for, slavery, secession, etc. The problem is that the confederates LOST THE WAR and the losers don't get to fly their flag. A private US citizen can fly or wear what ever they want, but not in the government. That would be like flying the Japanese or Nazi flag at the White House.
Some of these symbols (swastika) for example, are very ancient symbols which were always associated with good and positive things. Only becoming infamous in "recent history".
Mnemesyne wrote:
But most of the kids nowadays were too young to remember or even care
That's where the parents had better step in and educate their kids. There is no way I'd ever allow my kids, while they're living under my roof, to wear something that offensive. We are parents, not friends to our kids, and we'd better be treating them that way, or the parents will have a rude awakening one day.
After this post came up on Saturday, I talked to my 15 year old son about it. He knew exactly what the sickle and hammer stood for and the atrocities that Lenin had commited against his people. He'd learned about it in school last year. He felt it was a poor sense of judgement on this individuals part also.
Maybe I'm just spoiled....,all 3 of my sons are good kids with a sense of right and wrong!
"Women must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself."
Susan B. Anthony~July 1871
Linda wrote:Maybe I'm just spoiled....,all 3 of my sons are good kids with a sense of right and wrong!
Spoiled? No - a good parent, I'd say. They didn't just snatch that "good sense of right and wrong" out of thin air. The rest of your post explains it - you talk to them. And I'd be willing to bet you hold/held them accountable when they "stray(ed)."
Total repeal of ALL firearms/weapons laws at the local, state and federal levels. Period. Wipe the slate clean.
Linda wrote:Maybe I'm just spoiled....,all 3 of my sons are good kids with a sense of right and wrong!
Spoiled? No - a good parent, I'd say. They didn't just snatch that "good sense of right and wrong" out of thin air. The rest of your post explains it - you talk to them. And I'd be willing to bet you hold/held them accountable when they "stray(ed)."
Aw shucks Chief...,there you go making me feel all warm and fuzzy about you now!!!! Seriously though...,I appreciate your kind words!!! It's our job as parents to teach them the right things in life. Almost daily, I talk to someone in the family about a topic or two that's discussed on this forum. It's been good conversation!
Speaking of teaching your kids lessons...,I am very adament that none of my kids ever smoke. If you ask any of them what will happen if Mom ever sees a cigarette hanging out of their months, their answer to you will be "that Mom will shove it down my throat with her fist right behind it"!
OK, sorry I'm off topic.....,
"Women must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself."
Susan B. Anthony~July 1871
Our pastor once preached a sermon on the power of symbolism. There are so many ancient symbols around us we hardly notice them. Some we can easily identify because of their "recent" use. Some are hardly noticed because most people don't know their origins. When he preached the sermon he had a swastika hanging on the front of the pulpit. Gave me the major creeps. I was glad when he took it down after about 5min. The point being symbols can elicit strong emotions in people, both positive and negative. It depends on what the symbols are associated with. Choose carefully what you wear, you're sending a strong nonverbal message.
If there is nothing in your life worth dying for, then there must be nothing in your life worth living for.
Colt45 wrote:My problem with flying the confederate flag is not what it stands for, slavery, secession, etc.
I don't mean to get off topic here but if you're going to make a statement like that - you should get your facts straight. The Confederate flag was the national flag of the CSA - it represented the nation founded on "State's Rights". Back then people considered themselves citizens of the State in which they lived before they considered themselvs "Americans". The Confederacy was a seperate country with its own constitution and all. Lee's surrender was a surrender of the army - not the nation. It was understood that the defeat of the army resulted in the end of the nation.
Colt45 wrote:The problem is that the confederates LOST THE WAR and the losers don't get to fly their flag. A private US citizen can fly or wear what ever they want, but not in the government. That would be like flying the Japanese or Nazi flag at the White House.
Personally I would rather see a Confederate Flag flying over Georgia than a Nazi flag over the White House. If you knew your history and actually understood why the "Second War for Independence" was fought you would have a greater appreciation of what's wrong with our nation today. Too much centralized government at the cost of our personal liberties.
Read the book "The South Was Right" by James Ronald Kennedy. You will understand why such great men as Lee, Lewis Addison Armistead, Nathan Bedford Forrest, Thomas Jonathan 'Stonewall' Jackson and many other great American soldiers resigned from the Union and went to defend the south. These men did not take their decision and actions lightly - it broke their hearts to go to war against thoer friends and comrades.
So when (if) you ever come to the realization of what the Stars N Bars really stood for you will come to appreciate them. By the way, it was not "slavery". And as for secession - I wouldn't be knocking that too quickly - if it wasn't for secession you'de be paying taxes and duty to the Crown. Ever hear of the first "War for Independence"?
The side of the stars and bars I have seen in the shop I work in really didn't have anything to do with the CSA, IMO. When I hired in we had a pretty heavy KKK following and most on the other side of that battle got a pretty raw deal that I witnessed some of. One of them is a pretty good friend and I saw the crap he got spooned out to him when he went into the Trades. It was pretty ugly and undeserved by him. I can understand his problems with it .BTW he did his tour in Vietnam so I would guess I owe part of my freedom to him and enough respect to understand his problem with certain symbols due to what they were showed to him to mean. As touchy as this subject is I thought I owed him enough to try and stand up for him a little due to how good he has been to me.
in "recent history". 
Seriously though...,I appreciate your kind words!!! It's our job as parents to teach them the right things in life. 
Almost daily, I talk to someone in the family about a topic or two that's discussed on this forum. It's been good conversation!
