CCCP

This area is for discussions that do not fit into the formal firearms discussions of the website. Common sense and non-controversial contributions are expected. Certain topics are forbidden. See the forum rules for more details.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Colt45
Posts: 962
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:21 pm
Location: Toledo OH

Post by Colt45 »

Ursus americanus wrote:I don't mean to get off topic here but if you're going to make a statement like that - you should get your facts straight. The Confederate flag was the national flag of the CSA - it represented the nation founded on "State's Rights". Back then people considered themselves citizens of the State in which they lived before they considered themselvs "Americans". The Confederacy was a seperate country with its own constitution and all. Lee's surrender was a surrender of the army - not the nation. It was understood that the defeat of the army resulted in the end of the nation.

Personally I would rather see a Confederate Flag flying over Georgia than a Nazi flag over the White House. If you knew your history and actually understood why the "Second War for Independence" was fought you would have a greater appreciation of what's wrong with our nation today. Too much centralized government at the cost of our personal liberties.

Read the book "The South Was Right" by James Ronald Kennedy. You will understand why such great men as Lee, Lewis Addison Armistead, Nathan Bedford Forrest, Thomas Jonathan 'Stonewall' Jackson and many other great American soldiers resigned from the Union and went to defend the south. These men did not take their decision and actions lightly - it broke their hearts to go to war against thoer friends and comrades.

So when (if) you ever come to the realization of what the Stars N Bars really stood for you will come to appreciate them. By the way, it was not "slavery". And as for secession - I wouldn't be knocking that too quickly - if it wasn't for secession you'de be paying taxes and duty to the Crown. Ever hear of the first "War for Independence"?

G
Listen, I'm not knocking anything. I'm all for states rights, independence, smaller government, and individual responsibility. But in regards to this topic, it doesn't matter WHY the civil war was fought. Everything you said may be completely true. It doesn't change the fact that the South lost and the CSA no longer exists (for better or for worse) and the losing organization/nation doesn't get to fly their flag in the territory of the winner. Spoils of war and so forth. That's why I think it shouldn't be displayed on government property. I don't really care what it "means" or "stands for". See what I'm getting at?

Regardless, my point about the Stars & Bars was that many of the same people who would hassle a kid for wearing a "commie pinko" t-shirt (not necessarily you, Tom) would be the same ones in favor of a state capital flying the confederate flag.
Colt 45...it works every time
Ursus americanus
*** Banned ***
Posts: 563
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:28 pm

Post by Ursus americanus »

Colt45 wrote: Listen, I'm not knocking anything. I'm all for states rights, independence, smaller government, and individual responsibility. But in regards to this topic, it doesn't matter WHY the civil war was fought. Everything you said may be completely true. It doesn't change the fact that the South lost and the CSA no longer exists (for better or for worse) and the losing organization/nation doesn't get to fly their flag in the territory of the winner. Spoils of war and so forth. That's why I think it shouldn't be displayed on government property. I don't really care what it "means" or "stands for". See what I'm getting at?

Regardless, my point about the Stars & Bars was that many of the same people who would hassle a kid for wearing a "commie pinko" t-shirt (not necessarily you, Tom) would be the same ones in favor of a state capital flying the confederate flag.
Communism and the ideals of the Confederacy are two seperate ideas. One supported independence while the other represents oppression. I think it would be a pretty good bet that someone who displays the Confederate Flag has a better idea what it represents than some punk wearing a Che t-shirt. As for states flying the Stars and Bars - I think that should be up to the independent states to decide.

*opening another can of worms* should we also not display the Ten Commandments on government property? If not, please do not (mis)use the phrase "Seperation of Church and State" to justify.

G
Colt45
Posts: 962
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:21 pm
Location: Toledo OH

Post by Colt45 »

OK, I'll bite that worm. :P

The constitution was written not to keep religion out of government, but to keep government out of religion. In other words, to prevent the creation of a state religion or for the state to endorse one particular religion. So by all means, display the Ten Commandments on government property. But then you better let every other religion display their stuff too. Can't play favorites. The constitution says so.

If you're gonna let the Christians put up a nativity scene on government property during Christmas then you better let the Satanists and the Wiccans display whatever it is they want to display on Halloween and the Muslims to put up whatever they want on Ramadan and the Hindus to put up a statue every other day for each of the hundred Gods they have and the Scientologists to.....on second thought, screw the Scientologists.

That's the real can of worms. If you let one group do it, then you have to let them all do it so as not to play favorites and then it just becomes a freakin' headache. :| Easier (and cheaper) to keep it neutral ground.

Next ask me how I'd solve the gay marriage, drug war, and abortion issues if I were Supreme Overlord :twisted:
Colt 45...it works every time
TunnelRat
Deceased
Deceased
Posts: 9710
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:31 am
Location: Toledo

Post by TunnelRat »

Colt45 wrote: and the Scientologists to.....on second thought, screw the Scientologists.
I think I'm in love... :)
Colt45 wrote:Next ask me how I'd solve the gay marriage, drug war, and abortion issues if I were Supreme Overlord :twisted:
Now I understand why you carry a gun... :?
TunnelRat

"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago

When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
Colt45
Posts: 962
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:21 pm
Location: Toledo OH

Post by Colt45 »

Ursus americanus wrote:I think it would be a pretty good bet that someone who displays the Confederate Flag has a better idea what it represents than some punk wearing a Che t-shirt..
That's a pretty biased statement. I could just as easily say that some punk rocker wearing a Che t-shirt has a better chance of knowing exactly what it means being that most punk rockers are pretty politically active (albeit leftists and totally wrong :D), while most red-necks flying the rebel flag are probably just thinking "Heee Haw! Play some Skynyrd dude!" But I would never say that because it would be equally biased and a sweeping generalization. :wink:
Colt 45...it works every time
Colt45
Posts: 962
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:21 pm
Location: Toledo OH

Post by Colt45 »

tommcnaughton wrote:I think I'm in love... :)
Easy there buddy, I don't swing that way. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Don't let the avatar mislead you.
Colt 45...it works every time
OldManTod
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 4833
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:14 pm
Location: Just south of the really big lake.
Contact:

Post by OldManTod »

Colt45 wrote:
tommcnaughton wrote:I think I'm in love... :)
Easy there buddy, I don't swing that way. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Don't let the avatar mislead you.
This post was just filled with humor "not that there is anything wrong with that"

and of course the opening "Easy there buddy, I don't swing that way"

T
"I feel sorry for you people who do not drink, when you wake up in the morning, that is as good as you are going to feel all day." - Dean
Redhorse
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:26 pm
Location: Licking county

Post by Redhorse »

That's the real can of worms. If you let one group do it, then you have to let them all do it so as not to play favorites and then it just becomes a freakin' headache. Easier (and cheaper) to keep it neutral ground.

You got that right! Human nature tends toward setting a double standard however. Do we tear down buildings, or knock down walls that depict Christian scenes or have religious refferences on them...no that is ludicrous. This nation was founded by Christians who gave everyone else around them the freedom to worship the way they chose...except Native Americans... Oh and Wiccan's... Oh and... :shock: never mind. Can we legislate an "equal opportunity" situation for all religions? I don't think it will happen...take for instance Congressman Robert S. Walker and his 1985 bill HR-3389 to amend IRS rules in order to exclude any Wiccan organization from Tax exempt status (that religion is older than Christianity). Native Americans are already tax exempt regardless of religious affiliation "guess they figure we already screwed them good enough". Although there have been, and will be more attempts to change that. Until we can lose this whole "I'm right...your wrong...and all of you people are going to hell" attitude, there will never be peace and harmony on this earth! :wink:

endrant
Freedom isn't free!
NavyChief
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 11621
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:22 am
Location: Greene County
Contact:

Post by NavyChief »

Redhorse wrote:...take for instance Congressman Robert S. Walker and his 1985 bill HR-3389 to amend IRS rules in order to exclude any Wiccan organization from Tax exempt status (that religion is older than Christianity).
Gee, if we just switch over to the FairTax we'd eliminate this and all other vote buying schemes through manipulation of the federal tax code. :mrgreen: ...and that's as close to wading into this morass as I'm gonna get.
Total repeal of ALL firearms/weapons laws at the local, state and federal levels. Period. Wipe the slate clean.
Redhorse
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:26 pm
Location: Licking county

Post by Redhorse »

Fair enough! :wink:
Freedom isn't free!
NavyChief
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 11621
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:22 am
Location: Greene County
Contact:

Post by NavyChief »

Redhorse wrote:Fair enough! :wink:
For shame. Go flog yourself.
Total repeal of ALL firearms/weapons laws at the local, state and federal levels. Period. Wipe the slate clean.
Redhorse
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:26 pm
Location: Licking county

Post by Redhorse »

How about "Festival enough"...oh wait that's not right either :oops: ...Fare enough...there we go! That's multi-tasking for ya!

Flogging in progress :wink:

The beatings will cease when morale improves!!! :twisted:
Freedom isn't free!
OldManTod
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 4833
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:14 pm
Location: Just south of the really big lake.
Contact:

Post by OldManTod »

"Festival enough"...

Thats right becuase this is a Festivus for the RestofUs.

T
"I feel sorry for you people who do not drink, when you wake up in the morning, that is as good as you are going to feel all day." - Dean
Post Reply