Double LODD Westerville Ohio

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Re: Double LODD Westerville Ohio

Postby Bruenor » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:45 pm

Hope this guy gets the max sentence.

http://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/ ... bough.html

Gerald Lawson III, 30, was arrested by federal authorities on Monday and charged with acting as a straw purchaser for Quentin Smith. Smith, 30, is accused of fatally shooting Westerville police officers Eric Joering and Anthony Morelli, who were responding to a domestic disturbance call.

Smith, who used to live in Euclid and a felony conviction for burglary, is not allowed to own a gun. Lawson knew this, as he and Smith were friends and Lawson visited Smith while Smith was in prison, yet Lawson still purchased the gun for Smith, according to an affidavit filed by an agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

A witness told investigators that Smith gave Lawson money to buy the Glock pistol, as well as an extra $100 for compensation. Records show Lawson bought the gun in May at a Stonewall Ltd. Gun Shop and Pistol Range in Broadview Heights, the affidavit states.
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Re: Double LODD Westerville Ohio

Postby carmen fovozzo » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:50 pm

As he should...one year for each ten dollars he made..
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Re: Double LODD Westerville Ohio

Postby JustaShooter » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:37 pm

carmen fovozzo wrote:Sorry I disagree....having the gun at any ready position is faster then drawing from a holster.....specially from a duty holster....

As I understand it, Col. Dave Grossman first proposed that from decision to shoot to shot on target was the same from holster or low-ready. I called BS when I first heard it too. And then I saw several timer tests done by different groups, and there was essentially no difference (within a couple tenths of a second either way, depending on the person). I then did my own timer tests and saw the same thing. If you regularly practice your draw stroke from the holster, you may actually be slightly *faster*. Don't believe it? Do like I did and test it. Get a few friends together with a timer and have a ball.
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Re: Double LODD Westerville Ohio

Postby carmen fovozzo » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:07 am

I think were on 2 different pages here....You are talking controlled situations...I'm talking down and dirty in the field when a LEO has to act...No way can he draw from a duty holster faster then at a at one of the ready position....

Ask a cop...
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Re: Double LODD Westerville Ohio

Postby JediSkipdogg » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:24 am

carmen fovozzo wrote:I think were on 2 different pages here....You are talking controlled situations...I'm talking down and dirty in the field when a LEO has to act...No way can he draw from a duty holster faster then at a at one of the ready position....

Ask a cop...


And that is the big key....In a controlled situation, shooting at paper, hit rate is about 90% for law enforcement officers. I think range usage where cover and concealment and moving are used only drops it to about 85%. Yet, in the real world, the rate is about 12-18% on target.

I'm with Carmen on this one. People put down Serpa saying one can train all they want at the range with them and be fine, but in real self-defense scenario they can be dangerous. You can't then say drawing from the holster and low ready are the same time on target in practice and real life.
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Re: Double LODD Westerville Ohio

Postby Brian D. » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:17 am

{Putting on flame-resistant gear} Every year at the TDI event, whether for BFA or OFCC, there were people in attendance who struggled to draw their handgun from under concealment. Some of them claimed to carry regularly, with that same gear and clothing, for years.

I've observed the same thing at similar training elsewhere, and on the match circuit for decades now. Some of them were LE, wearing a jacket of some kind, using their duty gear.

And, even the "best" of us fumble the draw a little on infrequent occasions, under just the pressure of a shot timer.

All that stated, I don't think in hand(s) at low ready should become the new default mode for LE.
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Re: Double LODD Westerville Ohio

Postby carmen fovozzo » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:35 am

Maybe not the default mode...I agree....but in certain situations like, a domestic when a felon is involved. Or they know for sure there are weapons involved on a call...
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Re: Double LODD Westerville Ohio

Postby carmen fovozzo » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:56 pm

This creep had a violent rap sheet over the years...Including prison time..
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Re: Double LODD Westerville Ohio

Postby Chuck » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:56 pm

If my county sheriff's deputies started drawing their guns every time they pulled up I would stop calling them and go back to dealing with situations myself.
*The last time I called them for a trespasser, for instance
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Re: Double LODD Westerville Ohio

Postby JustaShooter » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:33 pm

carmen fovozzo wrote:ALl calls, And I mean all....will require officers to have to their weapons drawn as soon as they get out of their squads and until the call is verified safe.


carmen fovozzo wrote:Maybe not the default mode...I agree....but in certain situations like, a domestic when a felon is involved. Or they know for sure there are weapons involved on a call...


Change of heart? :wink:

Honestly, I thought that they already handled interactions with known violent felons with drawn handguns...
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Re: Double LODD Westerville Ohio

Postby M-Quigley » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:25 am

JustaShooter wrote:
carmen fovozzo wrote:ALl calls, And I mean all....will require officers to have to their weapons drawn as soon as they get out of their squads and until the call is verified safe.


carmen fovozzo wrote:Maybe not the default mode...I agree....but in certain situations like, a domestic when a felon is involved. Or they know for sure there are weapons involved on a call...


Change of heart? :wink:

Honestly, I thought that they already handled interactions with known violent felons with drawn handguns...


Back in the day the few times that I knew beforehand that I was going to have an interaction with a known violent felon who was likely armed, my handgun stayed in the holster. (only because I had a 12 gauge in my hands)
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Re: Double LODD Westerville Ohio

Postby carmen fovozzo » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:28 am

JustaShooter wrote:
carmen fovozzo wrote:ALl calls, And I mean all....will require officers to have to their weapons drawn as soon as they get out of their squads and until the call is verified safe.


carmen fovozzo wrote:Maybe not the default mode...I agree....but in certain situations like, a domestic when a felon is involved. Or they know for sure there are weapons involved on a call...


Change of heart? :wink:

Honestly, I thought that they already handled interactions with known violent felons with drawn handguns...


Yeah...apparently not in this case...do you think the police are at war ?
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Re: Double LODD Westerville Ohio

Postby JustaShooter » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:08 am

carmen fovozzo wrote:do you think the police are at war ?


I think in some jurisdictions it is very close to warfare. And, I think that in many jurisdictions the increase in former military personnel in the ranks of law-enforcement lends a certain mindset to their departments and colors their approach to some situations. Add to that the way many departments are gearing up their officers, even outside of specialized teams like SWAT, and it starts to have that flavor more and more.
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Re: Double LODD Westerville Ohio

Postby dustymedic » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:01 am

https://www.10tv.com/article/records-de ... rs-murders

Prior to Saturday's fatal shootings of the officers, Westerville Police had responded to Quentin Smith's apartment at least five times in the past six months - according to reports obtained by 10 Investigates.
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Re: Double LODD Westerville Ohio

Postby dustymedic » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:04 am

And they already grabbed the straw buyer:

https://www.10tv.com/article/man-charge ... e-officers


An undisclosed witness told investigators Smith provided Lawson money for the firearm and an extra $100 to compensate Lawson – who knew Smith had been convicted of a felony – for buying the gun for him.
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