security holsters inside of a purse

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security holsters inside of a purse

Postby M-Quigley » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:43 pm

Does anyone know of a purse that has some form of security holster inside, similar to some law enforcement holsters that prevent a simple straight pulling out of the holster without something else being done? Either that or has a compartment that requires a separate action to open, not merely a simple magnetic or velcro enclosure. (for those people that absolutely are going to purse carry a handgun instead of on the body carry, regardless of the drawbacks)
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Re: security holsters inside of a purse

Postby SMMAssociates » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:48 am

M-Quigley:

Welcome Aboard!

I'm a guy, so I've not thought about this too much, but you might want to hit Galls or Quartermaster (QMUniforms.com, I think) and see what they've got. I'm sure this comes up - at least purses for female Officers working in soft clothes.

I would strongly recommend you NOT get involved in complicated security mechanisms. They take extra time, and may make it impossible for you to retrieve the weapon in an emergency. "Top Break" holsters - the kind that your thumb pops open a snap - are probably the best way to deal with concealed carry. Open carry folks (and LEO's in uniform) probably should go a little further, but they need to train themselves to do it without thinking. Having the gun more or less in exactly the same location on a belt almost negates the extra time to sort out the interlock.

(It's been a very long time, but when I was in uniform - rent-a-cop - a simple top strap was considered sufficient. Scares the heck out of me now.)

Don't just put the gun into your purse "naked". If yours is anything like my wife's, there are bear traps in there :mrgreen: .

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Stu.

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Re: security holsters inside of a purse

Postby TSiWRX » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:18 am

Same full-disclosure - I'm not a woman, my wife does not carry.

But I do have a child who was brought up (she's now 9, and was ~5 when I started to own firearms and carry) in this culture.

With that said:

I have a question for you to begin our discussion - what your purpose/end-goal, behind your thoughts of wanting/needing more than a passive-retention-only holster within the body of the purse/pack?

I am hoping that you will return (I see this is your first post here! WELCOME! :) - Stu is our unofficial party greeter, I believe :D ) to hash this out with me/us.

In the mean time, I Google searched this a little, and so far, the only ready-made option I've come across is this:

http://www.designerconcealedcarry.com/

^ It seems that this company offers, ready-made as an option, offers holsters that use a small "retention band."

On the vast majority of manufacturer retail websites that I visited, it seemed - understandably so - that they are much more focused on style/aesthetics rather than the holster/holster mechanism within. To me, it seemed that these companies typically utilize a soft-sided "universal" holster (which typically offers very little retention and is usually used in the broader concealed-carry context as either a slip-fit/friction-retained waistband holster or pocket-holsters), anchored to the inner surface of the purse by various means.

While my effort this AM at Google-searching this topic is pretty shamefully incomplete, I'm nevertheless somewhat comfortable in suggesting that, perhaps, if you end up (remember our discussion above! :) ) choosing to further pursue this route, you may need to either self-modify an added-retention-holster of your choice to your purse(s) of choice or, alternatively, may need to take the item to a seamstress who can work with you on this concern.

[ Why do I want to discuss the "why" of the added retention mechanism? It's in-part what SMMAssociates brought up - that not only does such a mechanism introduce a further point of worry under-stress, but also that such mechanisms, in my opinion, should not be seen as precautions against a child's unauthorized access to the purse/bag. That, in-reality, the simple fact that such additional retention devices are meant to be capable to be disengaged while under-pressure requires the logical concession that we understand that a child, even given the briefest of opportunities, may well be able to also do the same. ]
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Re: security holsters inside of a purse

Postby M-Quigley » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:11 pm

Full disclosure- I'm a guy, I don't carry a purse, and the female that wants to purse carry is a relative but not my wife. My wife does not carry but she and I think purse carry is risky, due to children getting into them. Yes I know you can try to teach little children not to get into purses and play with what they find in there, but kids will be kids, and will sometimes do things they shouldn't despite training. In addition, what if the purse is stolen, or not at hand when the gun might be needed?

Doing a internet search, I was able to find a cut resistant pouch with straps, (not officially a purse) with a electronic lock on it that released via thumbprint, but it was like $500 I think. Although it wasn't designed specifically as a gun purse, it could be used as such. Most of the so called gun purses that I've seen merely have regular holsters in a hidden compartment. If a child gets there hand in, there is nothing to stop them from merely pulling it out. I've seen ads for police retention holsters that required a certain procedure to release the handgun. If the gun was in some form of a retention holster, they would have to do something else than merely pulling on it. Yes I know that the person would have to practice with it and that it would be slower than merely pulling it straight out, but it might make it less likely for a child to remove. Either that, or that it might slow the kid down enough for a parent to react.

One of the suggestions she has gotten so far from other has been to carry chamber empty, or with the magazine in a separate area of the purse (the handgun has a magazine disconnect)
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Re: security holsters inside of a purse

Postby SMMAssociates » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:26 am

Allen:

Wrong board :D.... I'm the greeter on BFA....

The magazine "elsewhere" is probably a very bad idea....

An empty chamber is usually a very bad choice, too, but may be the best anti-kid idea. Having the time to chamber a round may be a big problem.

The mud monster used to raid her grandmothers purses regularly, and my wife's wasn't safe from her, either. Chewing gum and candy abounded.... She's 29 now, and is now more likely to rip off some 9mm range loads when she's in town, but that's another story. She never had a purse to tempt her that included a firearm, and was trained very early on to "leave it alone" if she noticed a gun around the house or on my belt.

However, leaving a kid alone with the purse is still a bad idea. I'm not sure that any form of retention outside of being a locked metal box is going to keep some kids out.... And, let's face it, the metal box isn't going to be all that useful.

Probably 'cause I'm a guy, the only non-off-body carry I ever do is the P3AT in my bathrobe. Makes the wife nuts 'cause she occasionally wants to wash the robe :D. She's no gun-novice, nor a gun hater, but she'd rather that thing wasn't there.

I think I'd look at "Thunderwear" (there are a couple other manufacturers now - it's basically a little pouch that you wear under your clothes) unless you frequently need to access the gun to remove it. Access is a little slow, but the kids aren't likely to get near it :D.

Regards,
Stu.

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Re: security holsters inside of a purse

Postby M-Quigley » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:26 am

SMMAssociates wrote:Allen:

Wrong board :D.... I'm the greeter on BFA....

The magazine "elsewhere" is probably a very bad idea....

An empty chamber is usually a very bad choice, too, but may be the best anti-kid idea. Having the time to chamber a round may be a big problem.

The mud monster used to raid her grandmothers purses regularly, and my wife's wasn't safe from her, either. Chewing gum and candy abounded.... She's 29 now, and is now more likely to rip off some 9mm range loads when she's in town, but that's another story. She never had a purse to tempt her that included a firearm, and was trained very early on to "leave it alone" if she noticed a gun around the house or on my belt.

However, leaving a kid alone with the purse is still a bad idea. I'm not sure that any form of retention outside of being a locked metal box is going to keep some kids out.... And, let's face it, the metal box isn't going to be all that useful.

Probably 'cause I'm a guy, the only non-off-body carry I ever do is the P3AT in my bathrobe. Makes the wife nuts 'cause she occasionally wants to wash the robe :D. She's no gun-novice, nor a gun hater, but she'd rather that thing wasn't there.

I think I'd look at "Thunderwear" (there are a couple other manufacturers now - it's basically a little pouch that you wear under your clothes) unless you frequently need to access the gun to remove it. Access is a little slow, but the kids aren't likely to get near it :D.

Regards,


Sorry if I didn't make it clear in the OP, she isn't going to body carry, period. I've already told her that I thought purse carry was a bad idea, for various reasons. Although I'm not a fan of the fanny pack either, at least that would be better than an over the shoulder purse that you're picking up and putting down. (provided when she gets home she secures the gun or fanny pack and doesn't just lay it down somewhere) Although the biometric pouch might work, I don't know how slow it would be, and she's not going pay that for it anyway.
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Re: security holsters inside of a purse

Postby Mustang380gal » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:17 am

Gun totin' Mama makes a holster purse with a zipper that locks.

Coronado makes expensive gun purses with zipper access that locks.

There's another that is slightly more expensive than Gun Totin'Mama, but less than Coronado, but the name escapes me, and I can't find it now.

Make sure it has a metal insert in the strap to prevent being cut. I wear my purse cross body, zipper pulls where I can use them quickly. It stays on where ever I am, and it is never left in shopping carts, etc.

I have carried a purse like this for 10 years, locking it as I get home, unlocking out the door. I have 9 kids, and they never have messed with it at all. The purse already slows me down, so I would not use any holster that would slow me down more.

I have a funny pack, but don't use it. If I carry regular mom-stuff, it is too small. Carrying the fanny pack and a purse looks like you are up to something.
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Re: security holsters inside of a purse

Postby M-Quigley » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:05 am

Mustang380gal wrote:Gun totin' Mama makes a holster purse with a zipper that locks.

Coronado makes expensive gun purses with zipper access that locks.

There's another that is slightly more expensive than Gun Totin'Mama, but less than Coronado, but the name escapes me, and I can't find it now.

Make sure it has a metal insert in the strap to prevent being cut. I wear my purse cross body, zipper pulls where I can use them quickly. It stays on where ever I am, and it is never left in shopping carts, etc.

I have carried a purse like this for 10 years, locking it as I get home, unlocking out the door. I have 9 kids, and they never have messed with it at all. The purse already slows me down, so I would not use any holster that would slow me down more.

I have a funny pack, but don't use it. If I carry regular mom-stuff, it is too small. Carrying the fanny pack and a purse looks like you are up to something.


I'll search for those and send her the links, thanks.
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Re: security holsters inside of a purse

Postby TSiWRX » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:03 pm

Thanks, Mustang380gal, for those zipper-lock links....I completely skipped that part of the OP. :oops: [ Note: Some of the items at Vendor I cited previously also apparently feature locking zippers. Again, my apologies for having overlooked that! ]

M-Quigley, I really don't see THAT much wrong with off-body carry, only certain concessions that must be made - and let's be honest, there really isn't a single method of carry that's totally concession-free. :lol:

A tamper-resistant access to where the gun is physically located in the bag is great, but there needs to be discipline to not only remember to unlock the access when one steps out - but to also realize (I know you do, given your post above, but this needs to be absolutely hammered into the relative who is consulting you for advice) that while one is out and that compartment is unlocked, that unauthorized access can happen "in the blink of an eye" - that purse cannot be left with a child, no matter how briefly. Similarly, one would need to resist the temptation to lock the bag when one "feels safe" (i.e. "I'm in my car now, so I'll lock the bag and throw it on the back seat" or "I'm in the store/restaurant now, so I can lock the bag and leave it on the cart or at the table" - in either case, access to the firearm would be significantly delayed, should there be need).

[ Aside: In all honesty, even with the compartment locked, I really still don't like the idea of leaving the bag. I see the lock only as deterrence. ]

Both The Cornered Cat and The Well Armed Woman have excellent articles regarding off-body carry. :)

I know - it's kinda weird for a guy whose wife doesn't carry to have looked into these options. :oops: Part of it is just the gear-freak in me :lol: , and the other is that at one point in time, I considered off-body carry - for me. To me, while the item housing the gun isn't exactly the same, I feel that the principles are.


---

M-Quigley wrote:One of the suggestions she has gotten so far from other has been to carry chamber empty, or with the magazine in a separate area of the purse (the handgun has a magazine disconnect)


The "magazine elsewhere" idea has a tremendous problem to overcome in sequencing - given that a draw from a concealed-carry purse or bag typically requires both hands, my first thought is that it would take an additional and completely separate action to access the magazine during a violent encounter.

One common theme for off-body carry is - as we see from the articles cited above - that it's more complicated than on-body methods. There's just more things to "work" when effecting the draw.

Adding in a second task, one that typically requires a good deal of practice in and of itself, would be in my opinion very, very detrimental to one's performance when under stress.

Similarly, I also would not be in favor of keeping the gun without a round in the chamber. However, towards this particular argument, I know that there are those who do, simply for the fact that without a chambered round, the bullet cannot be discharged from the gun. That is certainly a valid concession towards safety, but I would urge anyone who is considering this as an ADDITION to the complications of off-body carry to truly practice their techniques and to realistically pressure-cook them, so that they understand just what kind of compromise it is that they are facing.

---

SMMAssociates wrote:Allen:

Wrong board :D.... I'm the greeter on BFA....


Negative, Sir!

Your welcomes here are consistently warm and fuzzy, too! :D
Last edited by TSiWRX on Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: security holsters inside of a purse

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:15 pm

M-Quigley wrote:One of the suggestions she has gotten so far from other has been to carry chamber empty


I've been giving that some thought lately. Generally it's a bad idea, but may not be as much of an issue with purse carry as

(1) Speedy access is already sacrificed.
(2) Access will generally require 2 hands (I'm sure it'd be possible to access 1-handed, but even more slowly)

Given the above, empty chamber may not really be that much of a concession in purse carry. It certainly would be effective in preventing tragedy if a small child gets to it.
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Re: security holsters inside of a purse

Postby Mustang380gal » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:26 pm

I carry a 1911, cocked and locked. I am already slow; I will not do anything to slow myself down further.
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Re: security holsters inside of a purse

Postby TSiWRX » Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:54 pm

Since this was one of the latest threads that was mainly devoted to purse carry, I thought I'd put these two links here:

http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/purse ... ry-part-1/
http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/purse ... ing-purse/

Two part series by Melody Lauer (limalife / limatunes]) on the pitfalls of purse-carry.

It's worth a read, even for those who do not carry in a purse, as there's also cross-talk with everything from pocket-carry to other formats of off-body carry.
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Re: security holsters inside of a purse

Postby MacDonald » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:48 am

Child proof locks?

Yeah, I know how those worked with medicine bottles.
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Re: security holsters inside of a purse

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:05 am

MacDonald wrote:Child proof locks?

Yeah, I know how those worked with medicine bottles.


The problem with child proof medicine bottles is the word 'proof'. There's nothing wrong with them and I'm sure they have prevented many children from getting into the medication, but the word 'proof' gives a false sense of security leading people to be complacent about leaving the pill bottles out in the open where children have easier access to them.
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Re: security holsters inside of a purse

Postby SMMAssociates » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:08 am

Of late, I've been seeing "Child Resistant"....

Probably to help the lawyers, but that's the way to refer to stuff like this anymore....

The former day job used to make screw-caps for medicine bottle and the like. We had a six-year-old "on staff" (a VP's kid) who used to test these for us. He did a pretty good job of opening most of them :D ....

Just IMHO, and back to topic :), I don't think that it's possible to design a purse holster unless the purse is designed around the holster, and even that may be too complicated to use in an emergency.

Never presume a kid can't open something....

Not necessarily a kid, either. I step into the "powder room" off our utility room occasionally, rather than scamper to the other end of the house. If I don't latch the door, one of the cats will pop it open!

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