Frustrated with Concealing....

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TKshooter
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Frustrated with Concealing....

Post by TKshooter »

This is more of a venting then asking for advice- although if you have advice I would graciously accept it!!

I am new to carrying, and with concealing I am finding it is more difficult than I thought. I carry a Glock 19- which is mid-sized- but I love my gun and shoot so well that I haven't wanted to downsize to a 26 yet; so I knew I was in for some additional difficulty concealing.

Also I haven't bought new clothes yet to help with the concealing just going off of what I currently have.

I am 5'5" around 195 lbs. I am thick and curvy. I do not wear really baggy clothes. I like shirts that are more form fitting to show off my umm... curves (lol :wink: )

Also to make things harder- I get hot way to easy so my original plan of lots of cover up garments does not work as well. I went out and bought a few zip up hoodies and they were working, I would just wear a tank top and put on the zip up, however it started warming up this week- so its was to hot for me.

When I wear just a regular tee- I print pretty bad- although I am sure that no one really knows what it is, it definitely is a big block above my hip.

Oh I carry in a crossbreed supertuck.

I am very jealous of my husband, he has a 5" full size 1911 and he wears a basic tee and *poof* its gone, full size Glock 17 and *poof* its gone- doesn't even print. I put on my tee and bam- brick city!!!

Guess I need larger shirts and who knows what else :cry:
-TK

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Re: Frustrated with Concealing....

Post by Brian D. »

TKshooter it's definitely different for women than men in this regard. One thing you've got as an advantage is the fact that retail stores generally devote a lot more space to women's clothes than men's--well in a typical store anyhow, it's not the case at Bass Pro. :wink: Meaning you've got more choices to work with. I know I've looked across the aisles and seen lightweight (summertime) button down shirts with square tails for women. Those could be used tucked in or left out depending on your holster. Same with very lightweight jackets, I've seen those too. They look like men's sports jackets but are all cotton (I think) and in light summertime colors.
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Re: Frustrated with Concealing....

Post by jabeatty »

TKshooter wrote:I am 5'5" around 195 lbs. I am thick and curvy. I do not wear really baggy clothes. I like shirts that are more form fitting to show off my umm... curves (lol :wink: )
Perhaps you should ask a few of your husband's friends if they even notice that you're carrying...

I'm not trying to make a crude or immature point, but most folks are easily distracted. From your description of what you wear, perhaps you've already discovered that one of the best ways to hide a firearm is simply to insure that most folks don't bother looking for one.
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Re: Frustrated with Concealing....

Post by Mustang380gal »

Believe me, I understand.

Yes, the stores are loaded with women's clothing, but much of it is flat out ugly, or intended for either very young people, or business class, and some seem to be geared to the people of walmart. The squared off shirts sometimes sit at the iliac crest, which is prone to riding up. Very few hang mid-buttocks or below.

Have you visited the Cornered Cat website? http://www.corneredcat.com She talks a lot about clothing. Long and short of it is there are style adjustments that need to be made to carry on body.

I still use a holster purse, and have since 2004. Clothing issues are part of the reason. I've lost a few inches in my tummy after having lots of babies, so I can entertain the idea of body carry again. When I do, I usually snag one of my husband's XL t-shirts if I am not wearing a cover garment.

I bought a sewing machine that does buttonholes so that I can make my own clothes, since the stores frustrate me so much. Now to have time to do it....
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Re: Frustrated with Concealing....

Post by Javelin Man »

Brian D had a good point with the summer shirts. I prefer the camp shirts or hawaiian shirts over a basic t-shirt. It covers anything I might carry that day. M380 has great points and listen to her though she might not reach your girth, I don't think she tops 120 even if she is holding her Appleseed rifle.

Just to be sexist, you could wear a low scoop front t-shirt and nobody would notice your bulge on your side. :oops:
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Re: Frustrated with Concealing....

Post by ATGglobal »

TK this is a friend of mine that has posted several youtube videos dealing with these concerns for women. Here are a couple that is specifically geared to what you are facing. Hope it helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogGBPVk5GQk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3oPw1WC ... ure=relmfu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Frustrated with Concealing....

Post by TSiWRX »

Every person's body is unique. That, combined with other unique factors such as the type of gun, holster selection and holster setup, support gear and clothing, will mean significant differences in how one person can or cannot conceal, versus another. Something that totally disappears on one person may well print very badly (i.e. shape of a gun) for another, even if they're wearing the same outer layers.

It is harder to put things together for a woman, as the increasing differences in body-shape/anatomy and the clothing variable both explodes exponentially. For a woman, even the time-of-month, according to their natural cycle, can impact the comfort and even practicality of certain manners of concealed carry.

- The Cornered Cat ( http://www.corneredcat.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )
- faliaphotography's YouTube Channel ( http://www.youtube.com/user/faliaphotog ... sults_main" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )
- limatunes's YouTube Channel ( http://www.youtube.com/user/limalife?ob ... sults_main" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )
- and Stephen Wenger's DUF website all offer some holster guidance ( http://www.spw-duf.info/holster.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ), with specific consideration to women's needs.

Of these resources, The Cornered Cat has a special sub-section devoted to "Curves," in the "Holsters" section, and limatunes - also known as limalife on the DefenseiveCarry.com Forums - can be reached directly for advice. One thing to remember for both faliaphotography and limatunes is that lima's current physical shape notwithstanding, these two women are both of the smaller-frame/slender-built body style, regardless of how curvy they are otherwise: so what applies to them may or may not apply in the same degree as they apply to you.

In The Cornered Cat website, she speaks specifically of cross-draw, inguinal/appendix, as well as "behind the hip"/iliac holster placements. Of the latter, if you can find a clip of Magpul's The Art of the Dynamic Handgun DVD, on Disc 3, the instructors dedicate a segment to their sole female student for the day, who happens to be slim, but curvy at the hips, and wore tight jeans with a tighter-fitting tank atop. I don't completely remember what pistol she pulled, during that session, but I *believe* that it was a Glock G19, and it rode in a Comp-Tac Minotaur MTAC holster behind her iliac crest, on the strong side. The instructors' specific concern was two-fold: one, that with such a form-fitting and thin shirt, while the setup offered the student good concealment when she was standing straight, as soon as she bends over, it was quite obvious what was printing through (here in Ohio, printing is more of a concern for the person carrying, in terms of maintaining a low/unarmed profile, more than anything else; also, if you learn to move your body differently, to accomplish daily tasks, printing can also be minimized), and two, that she has to move her support/reaction/"weak" hand differently, to accomplish a draw with that hand. Again, though, she is small-framed and otherwise slender - so once again, what applies to her may apply more or less, to you.

Also, the gun you're trying to hide is a concern. No matter how you look at the picture, it is one of the variables. If you can switch down to the sub-Compact Glock without losing your shooting and manipulations skill-set, that may be worth it if it can help you conceal, as you can easily bring up the gun's ammo capacity by carrying a full-sized magazine on the off-side (which can also help better distribute the weight of your carry setup). Nevertheless, even with just that little step-down, many will find that they have to re-train to the pistol (I know I did), and there is also an undeniable advantage in having a physically larger gun, otherwise - again, you'll have to ask yourself if this is something that you can reasonably pursue. Alternatively, can you dress more to the gun? You've mentioned summer comfort as an issue, and I definitely agree, but modern textiles may be able to help you there, to at least a certain extent. The other question regarding this particular idea would be whether or not it would send up red-flags in your life, social questions that you will have to address - to some, this may actually be more of an ideal, rather than an idea.

Remember, regardless of how you select to carry, what you're going to compromise concealment -versus- accessibility (from either hand) -versus- draw-speed. This is the same, between men and women. An OWB on your strong-side, neutral or only a slight cant, can conceal decently well, with the right clothes - and it will offer a lightning-fast draw (particularly if it doesn't have any secondary retention devices...but does it conceal as well as a 3SpeedHolster/ThunderWear/SmartCarry? Alternatively, can those deep-concealment holsters be as fast to access as the former? There's *always* a compromise.

Don't get too hung up on what everyone else is telling you is the perfect concealment holster/setup. EVERY person is different, and what works great for one may be the same, less-so, or completely horrible for another. Find what works *for you,* and don't be discouraged if it takes a time and trial-and-error to do so. The Cornered Cat said it best - don't give up, *something* will work. You just have to have the intestinal fortitude (and, in some cases, the bankroll, since good holsters don't typically come cheap) to stick through it.


-----


Speaking of "stick."

If you, your family, or a friend has something like the Remora or the "StickyHolster," one of those miracle-fabric friction-fit holsters, see if you can't play around with that, at various positions and angles along your waistline, to figure out what carry position work best for you. This way, you can essentially place and re-place the holster as many times as you like, to try to find what works, without having invested significant money in a more rigid setup that cannot be manipulated so easily. After you find what may work for you, then look for holsters that match that carry profile (or simply stick with the Remora and the like).
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Re: Frustrated with Concealing....

Post by pleasantguywhopacks »

Fanny pack specifically for a gun..Women can get away with carrying just about any pack, bag or other accoutrement with out a second glance.

There are some small semi auto's that will help for waist band carry. Kahr comes to mind. XDs will be coming out soon. I suggest if you can, possibly make a change in gun size as it would help if you are not willing to dress a bit larger.

My wife will never waist carry a gun. She isn't a size 6 and never will be. Even if she was a she still wouldn't waist band carry. For her the only option is a purse carry or fanny pack. Not optimal but she has the gun with her and that comforts her and me.

Carrying is a compromise on concealablity and comfort.
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Re: Frustrated with Concealing....

Post by Mrs. Daspirate »

I don't know how this works for curvier women, but I did notice that higher-rise jeans worked a lot better for me, as well as shifting the gun slightly further back on the hip. I originally tried carrying exactly the way my husband carries, right about 3-4 o'clock on the hip. When I was wearing the lower-rise jeans that I generally prefer wearing at work, it stuck out like a... well, a gun. I had to cover it up with a big hoodie all the time. When I tried on a pair of jeans that rose to mid-waist, it allowed the gun to actually lay more along the curve, rather than sticking up and out from the hip, particularly when I shifted it back a little bit. It's still a work in progress, but I thought I'd share the observations anyway. It may not be the same for a different body type, I'm not sure, but it may not just be a matter of playing with shirt types, it may also be about playing with wear the pants hit along the waistline, and perhaps trying some pants that you wouldn't normally wear as well, and you can play with the position of the gun too.
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TKshooter
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Re: Frustrated with Concealing....

Post by TKshooter »

Thank you everyone for your replies- its awesome to read everyone's insight.

I am going to have to buy some more clothes and try to dress better to conceal.

Also I will give a mid-rise jeans a try- I normally where low rise and like previously mentioned it sticks out.

Well I have never given thought to people possibly noticing my curves more than my gun! That is a great concept- might have to try it out on the husbands friends to see if they notice my gun. I think my husband is very critical of printing- I don't care as much- but then again when I print bad and I am out and about I feel weird.

I will have to turn down the fanny pack idea- just can't see myself doing that- although I am giving thought to purse carry- I really wanted to go with on the body- but wow it can be hard.

As far as downsizing the gun- a Glock 26 is on my list as my next gun. Its hard to switch- I have put so many many many rounds through the 19 that its going to cost a lot of money and time to do the same break in on the 26. But I think it will make a difference.

Also- I love winter- so this is just a nice weather issue. Hey open carry is legal- I am not that brave yet- I get jealous of cops- was standing next to one yesterday at Subway- and I felt so jealous- thinking "there you are with your full size glock out on your hip and you are probably comfortable and dont have to worry about concealing or having anyone look at you all crazy"

Thanks everyone- well I guess it will be time to go shopping! For a lot of women this is a fun experience but I honestly hate shopping- I am going to stop by Walmart and buy some over-sized tee shirts so that at least I can throw one on when its warm if I have to run an errand!
-TK

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Re: Frustrated with Concealing....

Post by SMMAssociates »

TK:

I post this every once in a while.... I wish I'd saved the thread, back on the old Packing.org, which has been gone for several years, a young lady turned up with a request for help in concealing while while wearing very skimpy clothes.... (In FL, no less.) I don't remember the solution, but the whole thread was pretty funny.

The way to think about guys in this context is a sign seen (allegedly) at a bar:

Men: No shirt, no service.

Women: No shirt, free drinks.

:mrgreen:

But that really is part of the game - the guys probably won't notice a bulge, and/or presume it's a cellphone of some kind. Back when pagers were very common, they were kind of big, too. However, if you're not very big,
Image
is possible....

(My daughter's about that size.)

You may be stuck with the size of the gun, too.... A single-stack, such as the new XD (can't think of the full model number) would more or less feel like your Glock, and be a lot harder to spot.

Only one really serious rule - everything you carry should work more or less exactly the same way. If your BUG is missing a couple features, it's still easier to get past not finding a thumb safety, for example, than having to deal with one that goes the opposite direction.

IMHO, too, the low-cut jeans probably aren't helping - the cover garment is going to have to be longer, and your hips probably are proportionally larger enough to make the gun stick out a bit, too.

Go with something with a higher waist, and maybe invest in a really solid belt (the Wilderness Trainer series are a good example) that holds the gun up against your body will help a lot.

Regards,
Stu.

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Re: Frustrated with Concealing....

Post by Mustang380gal »

Cabela's and Gander Mountain have a women's clothing section which seems to have better options to be used for concealed carry.

I like to wear skirts, but finding ones with waistbands and wide enough belt loops is often futile. I have done well at Cabela's and GM, though. Mostly Cabela's. I think Fin, Feather, Fur in Ashland has similar clothes to Cabela's.

Somebody makes a "hiker cut" jean, which rides almost to the navel, but seems to have some room in the tush. I am planning on trying that, when I can get to a store.
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Re: Frustrated with Concealing....

Post by Cruiser »

Wrangler makes womens high rise jeans.
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Re: Frustrated with Concealing....

Post by TunnelRat »

TKshooter wrote: Hey open carry is legal- I am not that brave yet- I get jealous of cops- was standing next to one yesterday at Subway- and I felt so jealous- thinking "there you are with your full size glock out on your hip and you are probably comfortable and dont have to worry about concealing or having anyone look at you all crazy"
You might want to try open carry for a few days. You'll be pleasantly surprised to learn that most people either don't notice or don't care. It sort of recalibrates your view of what "concealed" means.

I'm a very small-framed sort of guy (5'2" -- 140 lbs), yet I can easily conceal a full-size, 5 inch 1911 pistol, or even a 10mm Glock 20. Heck, there was a time when I carried a S&W Model 29, .44magnum revolver under a suit jacket. Carried butt forward, even that hand cannon wasn't noticeable.

Once you realize that most folks aren't paying attention, it makes concealed carry much easier and much more comfortable.
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Re: Frustrated with Concealing....

Post by parbreaker »

TunnelRat wrote:
TKshooter wrote: Hey open carry is legal- I am not that brave yet- I get jealous of cops- was standing next to one yesterday at Subway- and I felt so jealous- thinking "there you are with your full size glock out on your hip and you are probably comfortable and dont have to worry about concealing or having anyone look at you all crazy"
You might want to try open carry for a few days. You'll be pleasantly surprised to learn that most people either don't notice or don't care. It sort of recalibrates your view of what "concealed" means.

I'm a very small-framed sort of guy (5'2" -- 140 lbs), yet I can easily conceal a full-size, 5 inch 1911 pistol, or even a 10mm Glock 20. Heck, there was a time when I carried a S&W Model 29, .44magnum revolver under a suit jacket. Carried butt forward, even that hand cannon wasn't noticeable.

Once you realize that most folks aren't paying attention, it makes concealed carry much easier and much more comfortable.
I tend to agree with this. Now that I am used to it I pay much less attention to my pistol when carrying concealed. In addition, I open carry much of the time now during the weekends (especially when the weather is warm) simply because it is more comfortable that way.
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