Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

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Re: Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

Postby M-Quigley » Wed May 09, 2018 9:02 pm

Sevens wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:
carmen fovozzo wrote:I'm not bashing here but.....to the OP...LOCK AND LOAD Dude.


You can't "lock" a Glock :)

Although I don't personally carry chamber empty, I understand why some people do in some circumstances. In the case of one person I know, it's chamber empty or no semi auto at all, not up to them. As long as someone is fully aware of why they are doing it, and the limitations and risks involved, it is still generally preferable to not having a gun on you at all.

Carmen is correct and you are mistaken. Historically, in the world of firearms... "lock" means "to put in to full battery", locked and loaded means a chambered round and the action is closed and prepared to fire.


Thank you for that correction, I was mistakenly thinking of an external safety, not to put into full battery.

Sevens wrote:Side note, I am in full 100% agreement that any armed person needs his semiauto pistol ready to be used with one hand and if he has a training or a confidence issue with a chambered round, he is carrying the WRONG handgun and/or needs to train, research or otherwise get on board with modern handguns.

I don't get the final word -- but I'm wholly confident in my strong opinion and regardless of how that opinion may be received, I offer it fully with the intention of helping the OP.

Carry chambered, learn why, for your own good. If you cannot get on board with no manual safety on a modern striker fired handgun -- get a different handgun immediately.


I would agree with your opinion in general, but regarding the bolded you are assuming this is why the OP is carrying chamber empty. I know a couple of people who carry chamber empty, and it's not by choice. (unless you count the choice of not carrying a semi auto handgun at all)
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Re: Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

Postby Tru-Heathen » Wed May 09, 2018 9:32 pm

carmen fovozzo wrote:BS on this LEO....I believe the law states that at NO TIME are you to touch you're handgun in the presence of a LEO..I sure as hell am not...I don't care what the officer says.


Carmen, you're mistaken.

O.R.C. 2923.126 [Effective Until 6/1/2018] Duties of licensed individual..

"(A)...If a licensee is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun at the time the officer approaches, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the licensee while stopped that the licensee has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the licensee currently is carrying a concealed handgun; the licensee shall not knowingly disregard or fail to comply with lawful orders of a law enforcement officer given while the licensee is stopped or knowingly fail to keep the licensee's hands in plain sight after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the licensee while stopped and before the officer leaves, unless directed otherwise by a law enforcement officer;..."

After June 1st 2018 ,2923.126 has changes,but not to this requirement.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126
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Re: Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

Postby rattlehead » Wed May 09, 2018 10:09 pm

carmen fovozzo wrote:BS on this LEO....I believe the law states that at NO TIME are you to touch you're handgun in the presence of a LEO..I sure as hell am not...I don't care what the officer says.


That is not at all correct.

"(3) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose, if the person is carrying a concealed handgun, and if the person is approached by any law enforcement officer while stopped, knowingly remove or attempt to remove the loaded handgun from the holster, pocket, or other place in which the person is carrying it, knowingly grasp or hold the loaded handgun, or knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the person's hands or fingers at any time after the law enforcement officer begins approaching and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the person removes, attempts to remove, grasps, holds, or has contact with the loaded handgun pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by the law enforcement officer;"

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.12
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Re: Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

Postby Tru-Heathen » Thu May 10, 2018 6:40 am

^^^^That's the section I meant to quote, I blame posting late at night. :oops:
A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
But have his weapons to hand:
He knows not when he may need a spear,
Or what menace meet on the road.

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Re: Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

Postby carmen fovozzo » Thu May 10, 2018 7:03 am

Like I said....before I touch my firearm even after LEO tells me to remove it, he can arrest me first....
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Re: Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

Postby M-Quigley » Thu May 10, 2018 9:01 am

carmen fovozzo wrote:Like I said....before I touch my firearm even after LEO tells me to remove it, he can arrest me first....


Regarding the issue of touching a gun at the direction of an LEO, I had a discussion a long time back with an aquantance of mine regarding this subject. His opinion was that, as a black man, he was concerned that if an LEO directed him to do anything that involved him personally touching the gun that the LEO (or some other LEO arriving on scene) could then shoot him and claim the CHL holder was going for his gun in an attempt to misuse it. While I might think that is an unlikely scenario, that is the concern for some people interacting with the police. This conversation took place just before the Philando Castile shooting, and that shooting didn't exactly change this perception of law enforcement in a positive way among the black people that I know.

Back in the day before licensed carry, the SOP for the agencies I was involved with was if you encountered a civilian with a concealed handgun that you wanted disarmed, the LEO disarmed the suspect, period. You didn't ask the suspect to disarm themselves. Perhaps a currect LEO could chime in about what is typically done today with CHL's if the LEO wanted someone disarmed just for a traffic stop, absent an arrest.
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Re: Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

Postby carmen fovozzo » Thu May 10, 2018 9:50 am

I fail to see why a LEO would disarm you on a traffic stop....like speeding or running a light....
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Re: Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

Postby Brian D. » Thu May 10, 2018 11:06 am

carmen fovozzo wrote:I fail to see why a LEO would disarm you on a traffic stop....like speeding or running a light....


You've been around these forums long enough to know that this used to happen more than it does now. But it does still take place. I think it will continue too, as long as there are any badge-heavy police serving somewhere. Deep down, those officers truly believe they are the ONLY people who should be carrying, or even own, firearms, especially handguns.
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Re: Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

Postby WY_Not » Thu May 10, 2018 11:58 am

Sometimes I don't even think it is a firearm issue as you mentioned. It is just a way for them to remind you and reinforce that they are in charge. If it wasn't a lawfully carried firearm, it would be something else they would pick and use as an object lesson.

Brian D. wrote:
carmen fovozzo wrote:I fail to see why a LEO would disarm you on a traffic stop....like speeding or running a light....


You've been around these forums long enough to know that this used to happen more than it does now. But it does still take place. I think it will continue too, as long as there are any badge-heavy police serving somewhere. Deep down, those officers truly believe they are the ONLY people who should be carrying, or even own, firearms, especially handguns.
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Re: Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

Postby carmen fovozzo » Thu May 10, 2018 12:25 pm

Brian D. wrote:
carmen fovozzo wrote:I fail to see why a LEO would disarm you on a traffic stop....like speeding or running a light....


You've been around these forums long enough to know that this used to happen more than it does now. But it does still take place. I think it will continue too, as long as there are any badge-heavy police serving somewhere. Deep down, those officers truly believe they are the ONLY people who should be carrying, or even own, firearms, especially handguns.


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Re: Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

Postby sd790 » Thu May 10, 2018 1:40 pm

trent wrote:...I didn't have a round in the chamber...


Wut? Perhaps you should consider some perspective in the need to have a round in the chamber in order to be able to protect yourself when an attack happens.
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Re: Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

Postby Metal1 » Fri May 18, 2018 7:48 am

Absolutely zero reason I can think of to be carrying without a round chambered.

M-Quigley- I'd be interested in knowing what the reasoning is for the couple of people you know who have to carry chamber empty?
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Re: Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

Postby M-Quigley » Fri May 18, 2018 8:47 am

Metal1 wrote:Absolutely zero reason I can think of to be carrying without a round chambered.

M-Quigley- I'd be interested in knowing what the reasoning is for the couple of people you know who have to carry chamber empty?


One involves an employer, the other involves a church. It's either chamber empty or no handgun at all. Both are more concerned with accidental or unintended discharges than they are of the person being able to defend themselves. The church letter is particularly weasel worded, but that's a separate issue that probably should be a separate thread question in a different sub forum. :(
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Re: Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

Postby deanimator » Thu May 24, 2018 3:11 pm

M-Quigley wrote:
Metal1 wrote:Absolutely zero reason I can think of to be carrying without a round chambered.

M-Quigley- I'd be interested in knowing what the reasoning is for the couple of people you know who have to carry chamber empty?


One involves an employer, the other involves a church. It's either chamber empty or no handgun at all. Both are more concerned with accidental or unintended discharges than they are of the person being able to defend themselves. The church letter is particularly weasel worded, but that's a separate issue that probably should be a separate thread question in a different sub forum. :(

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Re: Leo encounter Bellefontaine, Ohio

Postby M-Quigley » Thu May 24, 2018 9:35 pm

deanimator wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:
Metal1 wrote:Absolutely zero reason I can think of to be carrying without a round chambered.

M-Quigley- I'd be interested in knowing what the reasoning is for the couple of people you know who have to carry chamber empty?


One involves an employer, the other involves a church. It's either chamber empty or no handgun at all. Both are more concerned with accidental or unintended discharges than they are of the person being able to defend themselves. The church letter is particularly weasel worded, but that's a separate issue that probably should be a separate thread question in a different sub forum. :(

How is one to carry a revolver?


I didn't mention it in the last reply because I had mentioned it earlier when I said

"(unless you count the choice of not carrying a semi auto handgun at all)"

Both of the people who have this restriction decided to at least have a revolver on them, as their is no restrictions on how many handguns they may carry, as long as they are concealed. :roll:
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