LEO contact with CHL

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LEO contact with CHL

Postby ApexShootingTactics » Sat May 06, 2017 11:29 am

On occasion I post my interactions (I am a full time police officer) with CHL holders.

Last week I was taking part in target enforcement, this is where we focus on a specific problem in a specific area. In this case it was people speeding in a residential area, pretty simple stuff. I made a traffic stop on a man in his mid 20s for speed and I knew prior to approaching the vehicle that he had a CHL. My introduction in the case of a CHL holder is always along the lines of "Afternoon, are you carrying concealed today?", In this case as I was saying my opening line he made good eye contact, both hands on the steering wheel and I observed the backstrap and rear of the slide/hammer barely protruding between the gap between the driver's seat and center console. He quickly answered and described where it was and I told him to not touch the gun and he agreed.

After checking all his info he was given a warning and told him he was free to go. Before I walked away he asked if where he had the gun was ok. Recognizing the backstrap and hammer I was 99% sure it was a Ruger P series and asked him if it was. He said it was and I said (jokingly) my only problem with the gun is that it is a Ruger P series. He chuckled, we talked a minute about my preferences and his plans for a new gun and that was it.
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Re: LEO contact with CHL

Postby Brian D. » Sat May 06, 2017 2:29 pm

That's the way it's supposed to go, Andrew. Kudos! I hereby award you the title of Chief Law Enforcement Firearms Training Officer of Ohio. All LEO's who work within our state boundaries must now take classes from you, and any who fail, or backslide later, must grind their badges into little pieces, and eat them without benefit of liquid to wash them down.
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Re: LEO contact with CHL

Postby ApexShootingTactics » Sat May 06, 2017 4:19 pm

Brian, Thanks for the pat on the back. I can assure you that there are many like me, the problem is we tend to talk more about that nasty 1% that act like idiots. Stay safe!
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Re: LEO contact with CHL

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Sat May 06, 2017 9:53 pm

Brian D. wrote:...must grind their badges into little pieces, and eat them...


Not too small, I would hope. :twisted:
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Re: LEO contact with CHL

Postby evan price » Sat May 06, 2017 11:05 pm

Thank you sir for both your service and your refreshing good attitude.
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Re: LEO contact with CHL

Postby OhioPaints » Sun May 07, 2017 4:17 am

I said (jokingly) my only problem with the gun is that it is a Ruger P series.


I know the Ruger P series doesn't get a lot of respect but they are functional first guns. I have actually seen a couple of respected authors claim that the P90 (45ACP) was "almost target quality". I don't know that I would go that far but I did think the P90 I had was a lot better than the P89 I started with.

To the OP: thank you for sharing and for you good attitude.
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Re: LEO contact with CHL

Postby TS04 » Sun May 07, 2017 9:17 am

ApexShootingTactics wrote:On occasion I post my interactions (I am a full time police officer) with CHL holders.

My introduction in the case of a CHL holder is always along the lines of "Afternoon, are you carrying concealed today?", In this case as I was saying my opening line he made good eye contact, both hands on the steering wheel and I observed the backstrap and rear of the slide/hammer barely protruding between the gap between the driver's seat and center console. He quickly answered and described where it was and I told him to not touch the gun and he agreed.



It is good that you ask first, in case we forget. The reminder about not touching the gun is good too, because I believe it is a felony, but so is reaching toward the gun. When asked for my license, I inform the officer, "My license is in my right back pocket behind the gun, and I cannot reach for my license without your specific permission to reach toward the gun as I retrieve the license." Generally I try to have my license out on my lap by the time he gets to the car window.
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Re: LEO contact with CHL

Postby OhioPaints » Sun May 07, 2017 12:48 pm

TS04 wrote: It is good that you ask first, in case we forget. The reminder about not touching the gun is good too, because I believe it is a felony, but so is reaching toward the gun. ... Generally I try to have my license out on my lap by the time he gets to the car window.


I see no ORC language prohibiting "reaching toward the gun". Only that our hands must remain in plain sight. Seeing how we are advised to have our hands on the steering wheel, any movement to provide anything to the LEO, or even roll down the window, would likely be toward the gun.

I agree about having the license/wallet in your hands, I try to get it out before actually stopping. Once you are stopped, it may be too late to get the license out since "no person...shall do any of the following ...knowingly fail to keep the person's hands in plain sight at any time after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the person while stopped" if the LEO begins his approach quickly.
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Re: LEO contact with CHL

Postby JustaShooter » Sun May 07, 2017 1:18 pm

OhioPaints wrote:I agree about having the license/wallet in your hands, I try to get it out before actually stopping. Once you are stopped, it may be too late to get the license out since "no person...shall do any of the following ...knowingly fail to keep the person's hands in plain sight at any time after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the person while stopped" if the LEO begins his approach quickly.


In my classes I recommend *against* doing that - LEO are trained to watch for movement and someone digging around to get their license, registration, proof of insurance, etc., is likely to put the officer more on edge than if you patiently wait for them to approach, notify, then with their full understanding of what you are doing, retrieve the materials they ask for.

Along those lines, I keep my CHL, DL, proof of insurance in a small card holder that I keep in my shirt pocket (I *always* wear a shirt witha pocket.) That way, I can retr4ieve them easily without having to reach toward or past my gun.
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Re: LEO contact with CHL

Postby Cruiser » Sun May 07, 2017 5:13 pm

My "papers" stay deep in my wallet in my back pocket! I refuse to live my life being prepared to show my "papers" at a moments notice.
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Re: LEO contact with CHL

Postby dl1911 » Sun May 07, 2017 6:27 pm

Used to keep my wallet in my right back pocket until I started carrying. Thought about it and realized I'd have to reach around the gun since I carry at 3:30 or so. Switched and it's been in my left pocket ever since. Took me a while to get used to it, but also took a while to get used to carrying as well! Regularly practice notifying when at a stop light as well. Been pulled over once and as soon as he got to the window I recited my "speech."
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Re: LEO contact with CHL

Postby Cloudwraith » Mon May 08, 2017 1:22 pm

I actually moved my wallet to my front left pocket. Not only does it stop from having to reach around my firearm to get it, but it is more ergonomic on my back (not sitting on it all day) AND it deters pick pockets...
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Re: LEO contact with CHL

Postby Face » Mon May 08, 2017 3:22 pm

Cloudwraith wrote:I actually moved my wallet to my front left pocket. Not only does it stop from having to reach around my firearm to get it, but it is more ergonomic on my back (not sitting on it all day) AND it deters pick pockets...


I'll second this - a salesman with tons of driving time recommended it years ago. Supposed to be a common cause of back issues.

I STILL have hip and back issues, but can't even begin to place a wallet in my hip pocket and sit on it. I carry little so don't have one of those 3 in. thick wallets, actually can purchase front pocket wallets now.
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Re: LEO contact with CHL

Postby pirateguy191 » Mon May 08, 2017 7:04 pm

OhioPaints wrote:
TS04 wrote: It is good that you ask first, in case we forget. The reminder about not touching the gun is good too, because I believe it is a felony, but so is reaching toward the gun. ... Generally I try to have my license out on my lap by the time he gets to the car window.


I see no ORC language prohibiting "reaching toward the gun". Only that our hands must remain in plain sight. Seeing how we are advised to have our hands on the steering wheel, any movement to provide anything to the LEO, or even roll down the window, would likely be toward the gun.

I agree about having the license/wallet in your hands, I try to get it out before actually stopping. Once you are stopped, it may be too late to get the license out since "no person...shall do any of the following ...knowingly fail to keep the person's hands in plain sight at any time after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the person while stopped" if the LEO begins his approach quickly.



If a person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and is carrying a concealed handgun as a CCW licensee, whether in a motor vehicle or not, he shall not have or attempt to have any contact with
the handgun, unless in accordance with directions given by a law enforcement officer. Violating this law is a felony
and may also result in permanent loss of the person’s concealed handgun license


http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/File ... anual-(PDF)
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Re: LEO contact with CHL

Postby Notasmiff » Mon May 08, 2017 8:19 pm

pirateguy191 wrote:

If a person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and is carrying a concealed handgun as a CCW licensee, whether in a motor vehicle or not, he shall not have or attempt to have any contact with
the handgun, unless in accordance with directions given by a law enforcement officer. Violating this law is a felony
and may also result in permanent loss of the person’s concealed handgun license


http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/File ... anual-(PDF)


That's the way I understand it. Inform ASAP and like any other LEO encounter,FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS !!!
And you'll have no issues. 8)
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