Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

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Re: Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

Postby BEAR! » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:28 am

That was great! Thanks Techguy!

Am I a bad person for getting a laugh out of the video? :mrgreen:
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Re: Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

Postby techguy85 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:40 am

BEAR! wrote:That was great! Thanks Techguy!

Am I a bad person for getting a laugh out of the video? :mrgreen:

If you are I'm worse because I was laughing right in the video after being the one to inflict that... In my defense I did ask him if he was sure several times before we started recording.
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Re: Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

Postby blah » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:27 pm

Hey there all. Long time away from the forums. Came on because he told me he posted this video. I'm the moron who took the spray. Glad I could entertain you all haha.

Couple things. As he mentioned, I wanted to do this so I would know what a full blast would feel like just in case. I have felt the incidental like his wife did, but that wasn't good enough for my own knowledge. I work in a statutory CPZ so I routinely carry pepper spray as my best and only real option outside of improvised impact weapons. Also he pointed out that we are more likely to be involved in situations where someone doesn't need shot than situations where someone does need shot. I agree with that and that's why I carry pepper spray most of the time as well.

So anyways I learned some valuable lessons here.

Whirlwind06 wrote:So does he feel like he could have gotten off a shot?


I learned that outside of close quarters I would not have gotten a shot on target. I can't be positive but I don't think I was on target.

I was pretty impressed with my draw and movement after being sprayed. Although I did react to the spray by turning before going into my draw. I was a little disappointed by that part though. But I did like how I moved on my draw and also I followed Techguy as he moved to keep me from shooting. I didn't hold my eyes open I was opening my eyes for a split second before they slammed shut again trying to keep an eye on where he was. Jerk wouldn't stand still and let me shoot him! haha.

sodbuster95 wrote:I've been sprayed many times by the Army for training (and once while on duty because a partner was an idiot). Part of the training regimen involves maintaining firearms retention, engaging suspects using unarmed self-defense tactics (including putting hand irons on them), and using a baton.

All while suffering from the spray.

It sucks.

Good training, though. My only criticism is that he dropped his sidearm after the training shot. I understand why (because getting sprayed sucks), but he should have maintained positive control. In a "real life" scenario, he would have just given up his weapon to the assailant.


Should I have kept better control? yes. But you know what? As far as I was concerned the training was done at that point and my only goal was reaching the water and baby shampoo. Criticize if you want (and it's good constructive criticism) but it is what it is.

Chuck wrote:Thank you!


You're welcome Chuck!

BEAR! wrote:That was great! Thanks Techguy!

Am I a bad person for getting a laugh out of the video? :mrgreen:


Not a bad person at all. I get a kick out of the point where he asks if I'm alright and my response is "NO!" hahahahaha.
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Re: Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

Postby TSiWRX » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:21 pm

blah wrote:
sodbuster95 wrote:Good training, though. My only criticism is that he dropped his sidearm after the training shot. I understand why (because getting sprayed sucks), but he should have maintained positive control. In a "real life" scenario, he would have just given up his weapon to the assailant.


Should I have kept better control? yes. But you know what? As far as I was concerned the training was done at that point and my only goal was reaching the water and baby shampoo. Criticize if you want (and it's good constructive criticism) but it is what it is.


I think that if anything, this simply showed the limitations of the scenario, that's all.

When running training like this, an endpoint needs to be established in terms of where, exactly like you wrote, the training/lesson ends.

I don't think that sodbuster95's critique is invalid, either, rather, it's just this is an area that we can all work on.

Oh, and thank you for cowboy'ing up and taking the hit. :) And if you like spicy Buffalo Wings, give the YouTube channel "First We Feast" a try. Pick someone in the industry that you find entertaining or funny. :lol:
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Re: Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

Postby blah » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:30 pm

TSiWRX wrote:
blah wrote:
sodbuster95 wrote:Good training, though. My only criticism is that he dropped his sidearm after the training shot. I understand why (because getting sprayed sucks), but he should have maintained positive control. In a "real life" scenario, he would have just given up his weapon to the assailant.


Should I have kept better control? yes. But you know what? As far as I was concerned the training was done at that point and my only goal was reaching the water and baby shampoo. Criticize if you want (and it's good constructive criticism) but it is what it is.


I think that if anything, this simply showed the limitations of the scenario, that's all.

When running training like this, an endpoint needs to be established in terms of where, exactly like you wrote, the training/lesson ends.

I don't think that sodbuster95's critique is invalid, either, rather, it's just this is an area that we can all work on.

Oh, and thank you for cowboy'ing up and taking the hit. :) And if you like spicy Buffalo Wings, give the YouTube channel "First We Feast" a try. Pick someone in the industry that you find entertaining or funny. :lol:



Definitely. I went in with 2 objectives. 1) What does a full blast feel like? 2) Could i fight off the affects and get a shot off?

I should have went in with other goals like weapon retention, closing distance to target if needed, etc. But hey lessons learned and I'm NEVER repeating that again! Glad I could entertain all the same. It was pretty hilarious to watch after.
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Re: Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

Postby curmudgeon3 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:45 am

Blah, any long or intermediate term effects from that stuff ?
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Re: Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

Postby blah » Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:11 am

curmudgeon3 wrote:Blah, any long or intermediate term effects from that stuff ?


Only this burning sensation when I pee. But that might not be related to this incident.

I was fine by the time I went to bed that night. Felt like I had a sunburn on my arms and shoulders for a good couple hours.
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Re: Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

Postby curmudgeon3 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:31 am

Sounds like it might be a little tough defending oneself in court for using a gun against the spray. Just a guess.
Couldn't find any legal case records in a brief search.
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Re: Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

Postby blah » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:40 am

curmudgeon3 wrote:Sounds like it might be a little tough defending oneself in court for using a gun against the spray. Just a guess.
Couldn't find any legal case records in a brief search.


Nor would I ever think that getting sprayed is justification for deadly force. That wasn't the point of this exercise.
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Re: Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

Postby blah » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:00 am

Before there are any other comments similar to the one about using deadly force against pepper spray understand a couple things. We are not professional pepper spray or force on force trainers. Had we spent more time we could have come up with a better and more realistic training scenario. But you know what? That wasn't the objective. I laid out my objectives for this and I accomplished them.

In all reality the reason for drawing a gun would be if I took a lot of my own spray after hitting someone with it but the situation was still escalating. Didn't include that in the scenario because frankly didn't think to and still don't care that I didn't.

Constructive criticism is fine. But keep in mine all I just stated. If you don't like how we laid this out and performed it that's fine. Just shut up and go do it yourself then. If it didn't match your training in the military or police that's fine because I am neither. This was a simple scenario so I could know what it felt like. Period
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Re: Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

Postby Brian D. » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:00 am

Glen, I think everyone here appreciated what you did, and shared. Closest I've come to being sprayed was cleaning off one of our police when he came into the firehouse after getting a bunch on himself while deploying his pepper on an aggressive dog. (Lesson I learned? Next time, drag the officer out to the garage instead of the small bathroom close to the front door.)

In fact, our new building has a decon room far from the living quarters, that's where any future similar situations will be dealt with.

When I first got a can of Fox Labs, decided to spray some on an outside plywood wall at my gun club, to check range and pattern of the fog. All was fine until deciding I needed to take a whiff of the wall, five minutes later. Yeah, it hadn't all evaporated yet.
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Re: Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

Postby blah » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:36 am

Thanks Brian. That comment about defending with a gun just really annoyed me because frankly I found it insulting to my intelligence and not value added. The criticism about retaining my weapon was constructive and beneficial. Part of the reason I stopped posting was all the "experts" and I couldn't be nice to them haha.

Oh man that was a hell of an experience with you and good lesson on not being in a small room! So when you went to take a whiff of the wall you ended up walking into the cloud still hanging there?
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Re: Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

Postby curmudgeon3 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:36 am

blah wrote:Before there are any other comments similar to the one about using deadly force against pepper spray understand a couple things. We are not professional pepper spray or force on force trainers. Had we spent more time we could have come up with a better and more realistic training scenario. But you know what? That wasn't the objective. I laid out my objectives for this and I accomplished them.

In all reality the reason for drawing a gun would be if I took a lot of my own spray after hitting someone with it but the situation was still escalating. Didn't include that in the scenario because frankly didn't think to and still don't care that I didn't.

Constructive criticism is fine. But keep in mine all I just stated. If you don't like how we laid this out and performed it that's fine. Just shut up and go do it yourself then. If it didn't match your training in the military or police that's fine because I am neither. This was a simple scenario so I could know what it felt like. Period

My comments were not intended to be criticism, constructive or otherwise, and I apologize if you interpreted them to be inferred as such. Thanks for sharing your experiences. There have been several reported instances where hoodlums have employed pepper spray to threaten cashiers at convenience store robberies, and that's more or less what I had in mind. Again, my apologies for angering you; I'll just "shut up" now.
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Re: Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

Postby Brian D. » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:38 am

blah wrote:
Oh man that was a hell of an experience with you and good lesson on not being in a small room! So when you went to take a whiff of the wall you ended up walking into the cloud still hanging there?


Not exactly a cloud, but enough to make me open up and try a sudecon (spelling?) wipe. For that limited exposure to the pepper, it did its job.

My earlier comments about spray vs. gun were general in nature and only for educational not critical purposes. We always have such a cross section of experience levels reading this forum, I try not to speak above, over, or past anybody. Sometimes it comes off a little "Captain Obvious" I suppose.
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Re: Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

Postby Bama.45 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:58 pm

Thanks for the video post..While I wouldn't want it to take the place of my firearm..It doesn't look like a pleasant experience..The thing though about pepper spray is not spraying it upwind..And sometimes that might not be possible to avoid.
"Lord, make my hand fast and accurate.
Let my aim be true and my hand faster
than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine.
Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun."
And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
Amen




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