Fellow forum member being sprayed with Fox Labs

[techguy85]

I am not sure what his name is on the forum here but one of our members is a good friend of mine and has been wanting to see how it feels to take a spray of pepper spray so he knows what he is deploying.
Here's the video.
My poor wife was taking the video and caught a bit of it floating in the air, so sorry for the end of the video. Hard to be upset with her in any way though, you'll see that I stupidly walk into the cloud of it still lingering as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es5BfY03wyc

[TSiWRX]

...you'll see that I stupidly walk into the cloud of it still lingering as well.

First, as a married man of many years, myself - I'd never hear the end of that.....

Second, and more seriously -

Given the fact that you walked into the residual cloud, how does the choice between aerosol versus gel come into play for you, given your vision limitations? Can you deliver a gel with sufficient accuracy, given the range of these devices?

[Whirlwind06]

So does he feel like he could have gotten off a shot?

[techguy85]

...you'll see that I stupidly walk into the cloud of it still lingering as well.

First, as a married man of many years, myself - I'd never hear the end of that.....

Second, and more seriously -

Given the fact that you walked into the residual cloud, how does the choice between aerosol versus gel come into play for you, given your vision limitations? Can you deliver a gel with sufficient accuracy, given the range of these devices?

I selected the fog pattern on the advice of my pepper spray instructor (Greg Elifritz from Active Response Training) for that very reason.
It does put it out in a pretty wide area but the advantage to that is that I can actually see the spray so can walk it on target if I'm not on target to begin with.
I've actually been sprayed with it myself before so even if I do get some on me I know what to expect.
It is extremely unpleasant as I said in the video but if you know what to expect you can deal with it.

[techguy85]

So does he feel like he could have gotten off a shot?

He wasn't sure. He did get a simulated shot off but we don't think he was on target.

[Mr. Glock]

That was interesting to watch. How long did it take him to recover?

[techguy85]

That was interesting to watch. How long did it take him to recover?

15 minutes initially to be semi-functional but keep in mind we had effective decontamination in the form of baby shampoo and lots of cold water immediately available. The full effects took more like 1.5 hours to go completely away.

[Brian D.]

So does he feel like he could have gotten off a shot?

He was certainly still able to draw, and of course fire in some direction. When we talk about incapacitating someone, that ain't quick or effective enough. My point being I wouldn't use pepper spray against a gun unless it's all I had.

[techguy85]

So does he feel like he could have gotten off a shot?

He was certainly still able to draw, and of course fire in some direction. When we talk about incapacitating someone, that ain't quick or effective enough. My point being I wouldn't use pepper spray against a gun unless it's all I had.

Absolutely agree with Brian; not at all a replacement for a firearm, not even a poor substitute. But it is my opinion that we come into contact with a lot more situations that are potential non-deadly threats and pepper spray is potentially quite an effective answer to that kind of attack.

[TSiWRX]

I selected the fog pattern on the advice of my pepper spray instructor (Greg Elifritz from Active Response Training) for that very reason.
It does put it out in a pretty wide area but the advantage to that is that I can actually see the spray so can walk it on target if I'm not on target to begin with.
I've actually been sprayed with it myself before so even if I do get some on me I know what to expect.
It is extremely unpleasant as I said in the video but if you know what to expect you can deal with it.

Gotcha - good to know. That was what I'd expected, that you'd worked out the gel/fog choice before-hand, and I wanted to know what drove you to one versus the other. Thanks for the detailed explanation!

[sodbuster95]

I've been sprayed many times by the Army for training (and once while on duty because a partner was an idiot). Part of the training regimen involves maintaining firearms retention, engaging suspects using unarmed self-defense tactics (including putting hand irons on them), and using a baton.

All while suffering from the spray.

It sucks.

Good training, though. My only criticism is that he dropped his sidearm after the training shot. I understand why (because getting sprayed sucks), but he should have maintained positive control. In a "real life" scenario, he would have just given up his weapon to the assailant.

[techguy85]

I've been sprayed many times by the Army for training (and once while on duty because a partner was an idiot). Part of the training regimen involves maintaining firearms retention, engaging suspects using unarmed self-defense tactics (including putting hand irons on them), and using a baton.

All while suffering from the spray.

It sucks.

Good training, though. My only criticism is that he dropped his sidearm after the training shot. I understand why (because getting sprayed sucks), but he should have maintained positive control. In a "real life" scenario, he would have just given up his weapon to the assailant.

Agreed and I'm sure he would agree as well. I walked over there to pick up the gun and walked into the cloud of spray hanging in the air. You can watch me immediately notice and jump back out of the way

Part of it may have also been that he was going for the bucket of water and didn't want to get my gun in the water. I'm sure the Glock would have been fine but not sure if my crimson trace would have taken kindly to that.

[Brian D.]

I've been sprayed many times by the Army for training (and once while on duty because a partner was an idiot). Part of the training regimen involves maintaining firearms retention, engaging suspects using unarmed self-defense tactics (including putting hand irons on them), and using a baton.

All while suffering from the spray.

It sucks.

Good training, though. My only criticism is that he dropped his sidearm after the training shot. I understand why (because getting sprayed sucks), but he should have maintained positive control. In a "real life" scenario, he would have just given up his weapon to the assailant.

Techguy really did a good thing here with the video. As far as the unexpected "collateral damage" to his brave crew goes, my captain at the FD has a saying: "It's not good training unless someone gets hurt, or something gets broken." He states that mostly in jest.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

That. Was. Awesome.

[Chuck]

Thank you!