Concealing vs Covering

[ApexShootingTactics]

I was in Giant Eagle picking up groceries yesterday and saw an older man and his wife shopping. They had their coats in the cart and the man was wearing a t-shirt and his carry gun was printing badly. The man's t-shirt was just too small, it fit him fine in the shoulders and chest but he was carrying a hefty spare tire that was pulling the waist line of the t-shirt snug and in return printing the handgun. As he bent over to obtain items on a lower shelf his pants drooped a bit (plumbers crack syndrome). This action caused his entire 1911 with rusty magazine base plate to be visible. As the man stood up right his shirt hung up on the pistol grip and rested on the grip safety.

At this point I politely advised him his gun was showing, he shot me a look, fixed it and said "its covered, you happy now". I replied, "The idea is to conceal it so you don't ruin it for everyone else". That was the end of the conversation.

This is the first time I have ever said anything to anyone and I have seen some serious printing in the past. I felt a need to say something when the shirt got hung up, I look at it as a common courtesy, if it happened to me I'd want someone to say something. The thing that {inappropriate language} me off is the attitude of "Its covered". The idea is concealing which means hiding. Some people face challenges when concealing but this guy wasn't even trying. His shirt was too small, his belt was too thin and well worn which allowed the holster to sag. The holster was an OWB, thick leather holster. The gun was a full size 1911. Each of these pose a hurdle of sorts when trying to conceal but all of them together combine to a disaster.

I have seen places get enough "concerned citizen" complaints to put up no gun signs. Covering is not concealing, put forth some effort and conceal it.

[OldManTod]

"Its Covered, you happy now" <- Best part of our peer culture, most people I have met are exactly this way.

[WY_Not]

But that is one of the good points in Ohio law. We are not bound by such strict definitions of concealed, covered, etc. If a person wants such strict interpretations, one is free to go to FL or some other state where printing can make you a criminal. Here in OH, the gentleman is free to carry how he wishes. Sounds like his attitude could use some work but he did nothing wrong.

[pirateguy191]

I cover.......sometimes.

[Brian D.]

Andrew, keep my comments here in perspective with past, very cordial discussions we've had: Maybe you should focus the brunt of your attention on suggesting a better belt to the guy. And keep in mind that open carry is not only legal, but can be done without asking the state for a permission slip.

Pet peeve of mine is seeing people who can probably afford better, carrying a cheap gun known for sketchy quality, or wearing a chintzy, difficult to use holster. But if the person is a stranger and I don't have time for a proper conversation, I don't start one. At least they're carrying. Out of 400,000-and-change licensees in Ohio that puts them in the, what, 2 or 3 out of ten who do, on any regular basis?

[carmen fovozzo]

I would not of said anything..GE is not posted...carry any way you want...

I sometimes don't care if people notice I'm armed...I'm so dam old I don't care if they notice..

My answer would of been to the OP .....So.....or what ever....

[Werz]

Sometimes I carry concealed. Sometimes I carry openly. It depends on the situation.

Do I ever carry "covered"? A few times. When a store posts a sign welcoming CHL holders but asks you keep it concealed. When a public facility in Colorado, pursuant to a local ordinance authorized by state statute, bans open carry in the facility. Those are situations which invite minimal compliance, and that is what they receive.

[ApexShootingTactics]

Don't get me wrong, I am not indicating that this man did something illegal. I see it as a poor tactical decision.

[CroManGun]

Don't get me wrong, I am not indicating that this man did something illegal. I see it as a poor tactical decision.

YOU see it that way. Others might not.
Sometimes I carry my .45 and, depending on how long my T-shirt is, an inch or two of barrel is visible. I just don't care!
Other times, my shirt is longer and there's just a large bulge on my right hip. I just don't care!
Over the years, I've had people come up to me to tell me that my gun is "printing". My answer: "What Gun?" Depending on how much I want to yank their chain, I tell them its a heart monitor, a defibrillator, a colostomy bag, or a GPS unit I have to wear since I got out of prison. A special one for the nosey ladies: I tell them it's a pump for liquid Viagra. I love the looks on their faces as they slink away.
As you can see, I really just don't care!

[Javelin Man]

Probably a good way to tell the fellow is that his butt is showing. He'll look and decide if he wants to care or not.

I, too have gone to a condition where I don't care near as much about total concealment but wouldn't be offended if someone told me my gun was showing if I was after concealment. If it's a t-shirt I'm wearing, then I wasn't completely serious about concealing my butt.

[carmen fovozzo]

Don't get me wrong, I am not indicating that this man did something illegal. I see it as a poor tactical decision.

YOU see it that way. Others might not.
Sometimes I carry my .45 and, depending on how long my T-shirt is, an inch or two of barrel is visible. I just don't care!
Other times, my shirt is longer and there's just a large bulge on my right hip. I just don't care!
Over the years, I've had people come up to me to tell me that my gun is "printing". My answer: "What Gun?" Depending on how much I want to yank their chain, I tell them its a heart monitor, a defibrillator, a colostomy bag, or a GPS unit I have to wear since I got out of prison. A special one for the nosey ladies: I tell them it's a pump for liquid Viagra. I love the looks on their faces as they slink away.
As you can see, I really just don't care!

I've seen you in a tee shirt and none of them even covers your belly button..

[rouger10]

I was in a pizza place with my boys. A young guy was there and he was carrying a full sized glock. No belt with sweat pants and a tee shirt .

My boys even said, "he's not very good at concealing, dad"

I politely told him that he was showing. He was very open to my words. It seemed that he was very new to carrying. I did recommend a good belt and a better holster. He kind of didn't really believe me that these made a difference. Then I showed him my rig and he was surprised that I was even carrying. He said he couldn't even tell.

Point is that people are different. Some don't care if they show and others do, for various reasons.

I agree with Andrew, and quietly and politely tell people if they are showing. All, up to this point, have been appreciative.


Roger

[CroManGun]

I've seen you in a tee shirt and none of them even covers your belly button..

That wasn't my belly button. It was the trigger on my AR-15, I carry it Mexican style.

[Morne]

his belt was too thin

This is the only real sin I get from your post.

OWB with a leather holster is fine. Full size 1911 is fine. Printing is legal (if perhaps not his intent, but you don't know his mind). But the belt? Yeah, that needs help. I'd have given him a tip about Zlogonje - the Biothane belts from there are inexpensive and wholly suitable for real life carry.

We can't all be uber-ninjas carrying AIWB with Kydex holsters and RMR-equipped, tricked-out Glock race guns. Nor do some of us want to be.

I've been "made" a couple times in public before. Both times carrying a double-stack 1911 variant. Didn't bother me or them.

I guess the thrust of my post is to say relax. I understand you get paid to train folks. No need to give out freebies in the grocery store. Instead, maybe hand him your business card and offer to help improve his approach to carrying.

[Stryker74]

his belt was too thin

This is the only real sin I get from your post.

OWB with a leather holster is fine. Full size 1911 is fine. Printing is legal (if perhaps not his intent, but you don't know his mind). But the belt? Yeah, that needs help. I'd have given him a tip about Zlogonje - the Biothane belts from there are inexpensive and wholly suitable for real life carry.

Oh yeah - I wear one of those Zlogoje Biothane belts daily. No stretch, no roll of the holster away from my body from my Commander size 1911, no bouncy weight on my hip. Best part - it cost me 1/2 the price of the leather "gun" belt I wore previously that stretched out on me.

We can't all be uber-ninjas carrying AIWB with Kydex holsters and RMR-equipped, tricked-out Glock race guns. Nor do some of us want to be.

I want to be Ninja, but, well, you've met me Morne... I am a little large for a ninja. But I do wear OWB Kydex at times, depending on the gun.

I've been "made" a couple times in public before. Both times carrying a double-stack 1911 variant. Didn't bother me or them.

Seriously?!?!?! You were carrying something that did not have revolving parts?