Drawn on by 2 cops

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Jim-in-Toledo
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Drawn on by 2 cops

Post by Jim-in-Toledo »

First, some things to know about me before getting to the actual encounter.

I have been working as an armed private investigator / security guard since 1972, shortly after getting my discharge from the USMC.
I graduated from Ohio Peace Officer Training in early 1973.

Since 1974 I have primarily been doing patrols of closed businesses, apartment complexes, churches, private homes, schools, boat marinas, and other properties that the owners want checked when they are not there, responding to burglar alarms, (instead of the police most times), transporting money to banks for businesses after hours, and other things of that nature.

In 2001 I decided to open my own agency, specializing in the above.

Over the years I have been actively involved in investigating everything from rapes, robberies, burglaries, arsons, kidnapings, bombings, auto thefts, shootings, stabbings, suicides, petty thefts, trespassing, property damage, domestic disputes, and more.

Over the years I have been shot, stabbed, hit by moving vehicles, baseball bats, tire irons and more.
So I think I have an idea of the dangers involved when out there looking for the "bad guys".

The VAST majority of the police officers I have been in contact with have always seemed to be trying to do the right thing, depending on the situation.

The few problems I have had with police usually involved them telling me "You can't do that!" :x , and then, when I showed them that I could indeed "do that" 8) it seemed to perturb some of them for some reason. :shock:

I typed the above in an attempt to show that I am not in the habit of "bashing" cops in the normal course of events and that is NOT what this is about.

Now, what happened as I perceived it:

Saturday night around midnight I was approaching an auto repair shop, that my company checks 3 - 5 times a night.

It is located at a major intersection, the parking lot and area around the property is very well lit.

From approx 100 ft away I observe a dark SUV moving from one parking area to another and stop.

I proceeded to enter the property from the drive nearest where it was and saw 2 people in the front seat, as I got closer I saw the passengers sleeve had what appeared to be a TPD patch on it, and as I got in front of them I saw a reflection off the drivers badge.

This was not a surprise to me, since other officers have used this lot over the years to watch a different property about 100 yards away that is known for having drug sales occurring at it.

Since I was going to get out and check the building and the other vehicles in the lot, I pulled forward apprx 30 feet and out of the driveway.

Then I exited my vehicle and approached them, intending to tell them I would be checking the area and that if they were going to be there a while some of my other people may be by later, and to give them a description of my other guys vehicles so they would know what was going on.

As I approached their vehicle I saw that the passenger was no longer in the front seat, looking slightly right I found him at the rear of their vehicle and as I got about 15 ft away he stepped out facing me with his handgun at low ready, while watching this I looked at the driver who had his hands in his lap, having also drawn,at which time both of them finally saw my badge and I.D. which I had been holding up in my right hand so they would know who I was.

While watching them as I continued to approach without breaking stride or visibly reacting to the drawn weapons they both re-holstered and the driver started to explain why they were there.

I advised them that I figured that was what they were doing, why I was there, and that I had no problem with them being there as it reduced the chance of anything untoward happening on my property. I then told them about my other people and advised him that I was just going to check the doors and vehicles and would be out of their way in few minutes.

As I was turning away the driver said "At least we didn't end up shooting each other!" in a friendly manner. I replied "That's a real good thing for all of us!" in like fashion, and moved away.

The passenger never said anything during the whole thing.

btw: I always work in plainclothes, unmarked vehicle, but have with me body armor, a raid vest, and fully marked jacket or coat with patches etc for situations where I know in advance that I will require more visibility but that didn't initially seem needed to me in this situation as I exited my vehicle.

My sidearm was effectively concealed during the whole situation, no mention was made as to whether or not I was actually carrying was made, I never notified re CHL as I figured I was approaching them on MY companies business, not them approaching me for a law enforcement purpose.

My thoughts as I was driving away:

Da*#, I thought I was in Toledo Ohio, not Chicago or over in Afghanistan or someplace!

I guess I AM getting old, those two cops look like they should still be high school!

Over all: no harm, no foul, I got home safe. 8)

Comments?
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Re: Drawn on by 2 cops

Post by Javelin Man »

They had good situational awareness?
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Re: Drawn on by 2 cops

Post by Tweed Ring »

You have chosen an occupation which brings you into almost constant meetings with cops and crooks; much more than other professions.

Based on the fact-pattern you provided, I believe no harm – no foul.
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Re: Drawn on by 2 cops

Post by Mr. Glock »

A few recent LEO assassinations have been in the news lately, I'd think that would make even Toledo cops more anxious.
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Re: Drawn on by 2 cops

Post by CroManGun »

How was it that the passenger managed to exit the vehicle, unnoticed by you? At one point, you said you could see his sleeve. You might want to work on that.
As far as them drawing; there's always time to reholster, not always time to draw.
Tactically, I'd say that their observation of you was better than yours of them.
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Re: Drawn on by 2 cops

Post by Jim-in-Toledo »

CroManGun wrote:How was it that the passenger managed to exit the vehicle, unnoticed by you? At one point, you said you could see his sleeve. You might want to work on that.
As far as them drawing; there's always time to reholster, not always time to draw.
Tactically, I'd say that their observation of you was better than yours of them.
My original intent when I saw the "suspicious vehicle" was to pull my vehicle in front of theirs, to prevent them driving away while I found out what was going on. (Maybe: possible theft of vehicle?)

When I saw they were police,
Since I was going to get out and check the building and the other vehicles in the lot, I pulled forward apprx 30 feet and out of the driveway.

Then I exited my vehicle and approached them, intending to tell them I would be checking the area and that if they were going to be there a while some of my other people may be by later, and to give them a description of my other guys vehicles so they would know what was going on.
In other words, after I had decided they were not there for a nefarious purpose my primary attention shifted away from preventing them from fleeing, to checking the rest of the area looking for changes since I had last been there, the passenger got out while I was parking my vehicle out of their way. :wink:
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Re: Drawn on by 2 cops

Post by carmen fovozzo »

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Re: Drawn on by 2 cops

Post by M-Quigley »

Glad everything turned out okay. It's been a long time since I worked security and private investigations in Ohio, was before Ohio's CCW. You said,

I never notified re CHL as I figured I was approaching them on MY companies business, not them approaching me for a law enforcement purpose.

How does that work when you're working security as opposed to a private citizen with a CCW? I've heard that for private security there is still the annual renewal and qualification. Are you as a working security officer still required to inform if concealed the same way as a non working citizen if they already know that you're licensed security?
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Re: Drawn on by 2 cops

Post by Sevens »

I thought it was an interesting read...
But I don't see much of a story and I also don't see any conflict unless I missed it?

I don't do what YOU do for a living, so when I read the tale... to me it sounds like a normal possibility on any normal night, and it seems like it went "RIGHT" and ended "RIGHT" and there isn't much to debate or comment on.

With that said:
Over the years I have been actively involved in investigating everything from rapes, robberies, burglaries, arsons, kidnapings, bombings, auto thefts, shootings, stabbings, suicides, petty thefts, trespassing, property damage, domestic disputes, and more.
Now THAT sounds interesting! :P Let's hear some of THOSE stories! :lol:
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Re: Drawn on by 2 cops

Post by Jim-in-Toledo »

M-Quigley wrote:Glad everything turned out okay. It's been a long time since I worked security and private investigations in Ohio, was before Ohio's CCW. You said,

I never notified re CHL as I figured I was approaching them on MY companies business, not them approaching me for a law enforcement purpose.

How does that work when you're working security as opposed to a private citizen with a CCW? I've heard that for private security there is still the annual renewal and qualification. Are you as a working security officer still required to inform if concealed the same way as a non working citizen if they already know that you're licensed security?
Annual renewal and qual is still required to get a FAB (FAB = FireArms Bearer notation on ID card), but, in order to carry concealed I have to have a CHL also, in addition to the FAB.

As far as notification, I see nothing in any of the laws that exempts me from it if carrying concealed.
Sevens wrote:I thought it was an interesting read...
But I don't see much of a story and I also don't see any conflict unless I missed it?

I don't do what YOU do for a living, so when I read the tale... to me it sounds like a normal possibility on any normal night, and it seems like it went "RIGHT" and ended "RIGHT" and there isn't much to debate or comment on.

With that said:
Over the years I have been actively involved in investigating everything from rapes, robberies, burglaries, arsons, kidnapings, bombings, auto thefts, shootings, stabbings, suicides, petty thefts, trespassing, property damage, domestic disputes, and more.
Now THAT sounds interesting! :P Let's hear some of THOSE stories! :lol:
I never said there was any conflict, however it WAS an example of a Real Life Encounter with police.

We see a LOT of stories that either imply, or outright accuse the police of "overstepping their authority", or being outright bullies, and more, that I thought I would relate an encounter that did NOT degenerate into any actual "conflict". 8)

I did end the original post with:
Over all: no harm, no foul, I got home safe. 8)
As to the other stories, maybe if we get together at a Meet & Greet sometime? 8)
Don't you think I have imitated Stu enough in this thread? :wink: :lol:
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Re: Drawn on by 2 cops

Post by Sevens »

Hardly! No mention of daughter, of daughter's friend, of the cat owned by daughter's friend or any friends of the daughter's friend's cat.
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Re: Drawn on by 2 cops

Post by 3FULLMAGS+1 »

Sevens wrote:Hardly! No mention of daughter, of daughter's friend, of the cat owned by daughter's friend or any friends of the daughter's friend's cat.
^^^^^^^^ :lol:
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Re: Drawn on by 2 cops

Post by SMMAssociates »

Hm....

Sammy's asleep, and the cats are off doing whatever cats do.... :D

Never had a problem like that while working in uniform, and only once or twice otherwise. The general impression I got on those encounters was "if he's crazy enough to be here, it's gotta be OK".

'Course, that was a long time ago.

The PD guys generally knew my car, too.

Still, I don't see any real concern in Jim's story.

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Stu.

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