OSHP Public Records reply

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Re: OSHP Public Records reply

Postby Tweed Ring » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:41 pm

I know very little about sports, but I sense providing such protection must be approved by someone in authority in the governor’s office.
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Re: OSHP Public Records reply

Postby JediSkipdogg » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:50 pm

Brian D. wrote:I just don't understand why coaches/players merit that (expensive) level of protection. Also seems to me that a LOT of looking the other way takes place.

See Patino, Rick, University of Louisville for one current example.

I could cite several more with a modicum of research, just going back a few years tops.


If OSU wants to hire 2000 OSP to protect them on the road, why should it matter? The state isn't "providing" the security. The team is paying for it. We get contracted out for all sorts of details all year long. A local business fires and employee and we get hired for a 2 week security detail to protect management (90% of entry level employees are gun toters and to be management you must be anti-gun...or so it seems.) Threaten to kill your ex at work and work for the right company, they don't mind paying $42 an hour to hire an officer. Matthew 25 locally does it every Saturday.

The teams pay for this security so it's not like you or I pay for it. Granted, if the police must act, then yes, we'd be paying for that "action" must likely.
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Re: OSHP Public Records reply

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:57 pm

Werz wrote:And what do you think will happen if they get their secret wish to become the Ohio State Police?


So, I saw an OSHP cruiser last week that also had the words "POLICE OFFICER" on the cruiser.

Any idea what that's about?
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Re: OSHP Public Records reply

Postby cashman966 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:16 pm

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
Werz wrote:And what do you think will happen if they get their secret wish to become the Ohio State Police?


So, I saw an OSHP cruiser last week that also had the words "POLICE OFFICER" on the cruiser.

Any idea what that's about?


Maybe this?

http://www.statepatrol.ohio.gov/FAQ.stm

What types of employees are needed to fulfill Highway Patrol duties and responsibilities?

In addition to its troopers, the Ohio State Highway Patrol employs: Radio Dispatchers, Driver Examiners, Commercial Enforcement Officers, Motor Vehicle Inspectors, Load Limit Inspectors, Electronics Technicians, and civilian specialists. In addition, special Police Officers are maintained to provide security at the Expo Center, Capital Square, and state office buildings.
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Re: OSHP Public Records reply

Postby Brian D. » Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:45 am

JediSkipdogg wrote:
Brian D. wrote:I just don't understand why coaches/players merit that (expensive) level of protection. Also seems to me that a LOT of looking the other way takes place.

See Patino, Rick, University of Louisville for one current example.

I could cite several more with a modicum of research, just going back a few years tops.


If OSU wants to hire 2000 OSP to protect them on the road, why should it matter? The state isn't "providing" the security. The team is paying for it. We get contracted out for all sorts of details all year long. A local business fires and employee and we get hired for a 2 week security detail to protect management (90% of entry level employees are gun toters and to be management you must be anti-gun...or so it seems.) Threaten to kill your ex at work and work for the right company, they don't mind paying $42 an hour to hire an officer. Matthew 25 locally does it every Saturday.

The teams pay for this security so it's not like you or I pay for it. Granted, if the police must act, then yes, we'd be paying for that "action" must likely.


Uh, Jedi...those college teams are part of state funded universities. You know, as in paid for by us taxpayers? Such expenses, in spite of what that grumpy state trooper told Tweed Ring, are indeed our business as citizens and tax payers.

Maybe you are thinking of the pro teams then? Again, down here in Cincinnati at least it's tough to tell just how much of what they do is taxpayer funded versus private. Co-mingling of funds, sorta kinda, it would be very tough to sort it all out. They (especially the Bengals) didn't wean themselves off the public dole when stadium construction was completed. Still paying for their upgrades, fixes, etc.

Methinks I'm getting close to goring your ox or something...don't you have a part time gig of some kind with the Bengals?

Oh by the way that part where you said "hire 2,000 OSP to protect them on the road"? That kind of argument is called sophistry and it hasn't worked on me since my mom tried it once too often when I was about 14. Yes, she actually used the old "if all your friends were jumping off a bridge I guess you'd want to do it too" nonsense. It broke her heart when I laughed in her face, but she never insulted my intelligence like that again.
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Re: OSHP Public Records reply

Postby mreising » Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:02 pm

I'm with Brian on this one. Why should taxpayer dollars fund special extra security for teams when they travel? The host venue, which reaps the benefits of the fan dollars, should be the one to provide the security.The college sports teams are a business, but they still rely on taxpayers to fund some of their activities, so let them fend for themselves the way the rest of us have to provide for our own security. Way too much time and money spent on pro and semi-pro, i.e., college, sports. Taxpayer funding of stadiums, such as PB Stadium in Cincinnati, for a private enterprise. If that is good, then why not have taxpayers build a new plant for Ford (note I left GM out of this argument as it is quasi-government now :wink: ). /rant
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Re: OSHP Public Records reply

Postby dcludwig » Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:23 pm

I would think the income from ticket sales/media/merchandise sales pays not only for all the players scholarships, but also the peripheral expenses (security, etc) related the OSU football program. I could be wrong, I do know they take in quite a bit and surely any security forces required are taken care of. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do know a LOT of money is taken in from the football program. I cannot imagine security not being paid for, and if not so, than something is very wrong here.

And I do not remember the OSHP being present at OSU games. Actually, though I definitely recall security forces being present, I've never paid that much attention. I would tonight, but it's being played in PA, I'd assume they are responsible for security. It would be interesting to see who is surrounding Meyer after the game. As to justification of security at some athletic events, a game involving OSU, Alabama, etc., would be a perfect setting for some nutcase wanting his 15 minutes of fame.
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Re: OSHP Public Records reply

Postby WestonDon » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:08 pm

dcludwig wrote: a game involving OSU, Alabama, etc., would be a perfect setting for some nutcase wanting his 15 minutes of fame.


Indeed it would. I really hope we can get carry in gov't buildings soon. including colleges. I can just visualize a team of jihadists methodically cutting off heads in the stands while the security detail forms a protective ring around the head coach.
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Re: OSHP Public Records reply

Postby dcludwig » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:36 pm

WestonDon wrote:
dcludwig wrote: a game involving OSU, Alabama, etc., would be a perfect setting for some nutcase wanting his 15 minutes of fame.


Indeed it would. I really hope we can get carry in gov't buildings soon. including colleges. I can just visualize a team of jihadists methodically cutting off heads in the stands while the security detail forms a protective ring around the head coach.


I've only been to one OSU game and that was 15 years ago. I would imagine they have some type of detector at the entrances nowadays (yeah, I know, so why security around the coaches?) but I would agree, why not allow CC at games? Nutcases have a way of evading detection. I could see an angry opponent fan without weapons that could do physical damage to coaches/players, so I don't have a problem with them having security about them, more so than me as a fan in the stands. I think jihadists crave attention and killing a few fans would draw far less media coverage than killing the coach. Still, it would be nice to have CC permitted as it would give them pause about killing anyone.
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Re: OSHP Public Records reply

Postby cashman966 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:20 pm

mreising wrote:I'm with Brian on this one. Why should taxpayer dollars fund special extra security for teams when they travel? The host venue, which reaps the benefits of the fan dollars, should be the one to provide the security.The college sports teams are a business, but they still rely on taxpayers to fund some of their activities, so let them fend for themselves the way the rest of us have to provide for our own security. Way too much time and money spent on pro and semi-pro, i.e., college, sports. Taxpayer funding of stadiums, such as PB Stadium in Cincinnati, for a private enterprise. If that is good, then why not have taxpayers build a new plant for Ford (note I left GM out of this argument as it is quasi-government now :wink: ). /rant


The OSU athletic department uses no taxpayer funds. It is entirely self sufficient through ticket sales, concessions, licensing fees, donations and other non public sources. In fact it reduces the taxpayer and student cost burden by returning money to the taxpayer subsidized academic budget. Over $16 million has been transferred over the past two years.
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Re: OSHP Public Records reply

Postby JediSkipdogg » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:31 pm

Keep in mind when dealing with college sports teams that they receive no taxpayer funds. Sure, one can argue the golf team is using the school name which is paid for by taxpayers so they are taking a piece of the pie. But sports programs are run 100% self-sufficient through the athletic programs. Therefore they are taking money from themselves to pay for that security.

I'll let you win on the Bengals...but that was the taxpayers fault. They should have known what they were getting in to when they agreed to it. It was all there in plain english. I was too young to vote on it, but have since read what was voted on and must say America was pretty dumb back then to say yes to that deal.
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Re: OSHP Public Records reply

Postby Brian D. » Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:42 pm

You guys are still missing the big picture...I think.

So the college sports (some of them anyhow) are self sustaining money-wise. But Ohio can't just allow those programs, then end all the scholastic stuff that runs at a net loss, and still call the place over all a university. It's a college, you can't have just stadiums and ball fields, the buildings full of professors and such are part of the equation too. I've even heard it said that some of the athletes actually use those classrooms from time to time.

Are you following me? The college overall is funded by taxpayers to some extent. If let's say teaching staff got cut due to shortfall that would affect the athletes because they are students too. Perhaps some of the coaches are also paid partly as classroom instructors.

There is a lot of money being spent over on the sports part of the ledger to pay for police, above and beyond what the university already has in place. I say it's over the top, and if it wasn't done there'd be more revenue available for the common good of the rest of the college's operation.
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Re: OSHP Public Records reply

Postby TJW815 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:05 pm

Just gonna leave this here:

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/06/01/how-profitable-is-ohio-state-university-athletics-department/

The over $35 million in profits from football doesn’t go far when you run an athletic department the size and quality of Ohio State University’s. In fact, it costs over $126 million to run Ohio State’s athletic department.
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Re: OSHP Public Records reply

Postby Brian D. » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:59 pm

Very good TJW815. Thanks for putting that up. I've read such numbers before, this isn't new.
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Re: OSHP Public Records reply

Postby cashman966 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:33 pm

Brian D. wrote:You guys are still missing the big picture...I think.

So the college sports (some of them anyhow) are self sustaining money-wise. But Ohio can't just allow those programs, then end all the scholastic stuff that runs at a net loss, and still call the place over all a university. It's a college, you can't have just stadiums and ball fields, the buildings full of professors and such are part of the equation too. I've even heard it said that some of the athletes actually use those classrooms from time to time.

Are you following me? The college overall is funded by taxpayers to some extent. If let's say teaching staff got cut due to shortfall that would affect the athletes because they are students too. Perhaps some of the coaches are also paid partly as classroom instructors.

There is a lot of money being spent over on the sports part of the ledger to pay for police, above and beyond what the university already has in place. I say it's over the top, and if it wasn't done there'd be more revenue available for the common good of the rest of the college's operation.


In your opinion how many officers does it take to insure the safety of the coaches and players as well as the 100,000 plus people in the stands? Just exactly how much do you feel is being wasted?

Other than that I am not sure what your objection is. You seem to be saying that the academic side is underfunded because of the athletic side. All the student athletes are paying tuition either personally or through non publicly funded scholarships. That would cover their use of classrooms just as any non student athlete's tuition would. And any salary earned by a coach as an instructor would be covered by whatever department he teaches for and would be a cost the department would have regardless of and separate from any non-publicly funded coaching salary that instructor would have.

And I am really at a loss as to what revenue you think would be available? If the sports side was not there there would be no revenue to generate. Not to mention the millions of dollars in donations and endowments the university receives for academic and capital uses that would dry up without the athletic department.

While on the surface it may appear that a Saturday morning football game is a money draining event that serves no academic purpose, I mean it is hardly a Physics 101 class, if you dig a little deeper you find that college athletics are a revenue generating machine that most colleges have grown to rely on. Every dollar generated directly and indirectly by public college athletics is a dollar that stays in taxpayers pockets. And as a taxpayer I say hire as many troopers as you need to keep that money maker going.
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