OSHP Public Records reply

[WestonDon]

I am assuming the "hands out the window" order was given after you informed and not before he approached the car? Correct? In that case it was a little too late for officer safety if you meant him harm. I would want to know also just what was his plan if you decided to swat at a bug or pick your nose while he is writing the ticket? Start shooting? After all he either was afraid for his life or he wasn't. I think he was just a Richard.

[techguy85]

Hands out the window order came after notification.

[WayneB]

Hands out the window order came after notification.

And right here is where the logic of all of the hoop jumping goes off the rails for me. (Not arguing that the order was lawful.)

I've already told you I have a gun. If I had any intention of using it, that would have been the opportune time.

I've had the opportunity to notify 6 times. The best I've been told is "thanks for following the law" and the worst was "just don't touch it". I would feel a bit on the criminal side having to hold my hands out the window, sit in the back of the cruiser, have my gun confiscated, etc. All legal of course.

But, aren't there like a dozen other "warning signs" they ought to be looking for rather than "Officer, I have an Ohio CHL and I am armed."?

[docpadds]

But, aren't there like a dozen other "warning signs" they ought to be looking for rather than "Officer, I have an Ohio CHL and I am armed."?

Nervous and fidgety driver and passenger, movement inside the car etc, can set their trouble radar off.

[deanimator]

OSHP has been against concealed carry and people with CHLs from before concealed carry was passed. This just seems like a manifestation of that animosity.

[Jim-in-Toledo]

I have a shattered right scapula (9 pieces), hanging both hands out the window while remaining in the vehicle would effectively be impossible for me.

I guess I have some real thinking to do about how to react to an order like that, don't I?

[docpadds]

Politely tell them the issue. Done.

[CroManGun]

Politely tell them the issue. Done.

HaHaHa! I know people that have been denied the use of their cane or crutches when ordered to exit their vehicle at a stop.

I have a permanently disabled hand; due to tendon damage, I've got two fingers that are bent. A few years ago, I went to a local police station to have some fingerprints taken for an out of state carry license. I told the moron doing the printing about my disability. He said no problem. He d*mn near broke my fingers trying to straighten them. I was in so much pain, I kicked over two chairs and almost turned the table over. I've got good reason to be skeptical about the leeway given to those that may need it. When you say you CAN'T do something, I think many times it is perceived as you WON'T do something.

Good luck, Jim!

[deanimator]

Politely tell them the issue. Done.

I put the odds at at least 50-50 that he pulls you out of the car forcibly for "defying" his orders. And that's excluding more extreme action.

[SeanC]

OSHP has been against concealed carry and people with CHLs from before concealed carry was passed. This just seems like a manifestation of that animosity.

It's not actually the OSHP. The organization is a political instrument of the governor. When the governor wants to oppose a firearm law, but doesn't want to be seen as anti-gun, he has the OSHP oppose it and then cites "law enforcement concerns" as his justification for his own opposition.

[deanimator]

When the governor wants to oppose a firearm law, but doesn't want to be seen as anti-gun, he has the OSHP oppose it and then cites "law enforcement concerns" as his justification for his own opposition.

That was certainly Voinovich's and Taft's modus operandi.

[Tweed Ring]

OSHP has been against concealed carry and people with CHLs from before concealed carry was passed. This just seems like a manifestation of that animosity.

It's not actually the OSHP. The organization is a political instrument of the governor. When the governor wants to oppose a firearm law, but doesn't want to be seen as anti-gun, he has the OSHP oppose it and then cites "law enforcement concerns" as his justification for his own opposition.

I agree. I saw this in practice during the Taft administration. Upper management in the OSP may wear uniforms, but they are political. These people give cover to the pols.

Many of the rank-and-file tend to take their cues from their upper management. In my experience, as a group, the OSP is much more anti-concealed carry than any other law enforcement organization in Ohio.

[WestonDon]

OSHP has been against concealed carry and people with CHLs from before concealed carry was passed. This just seems like a manifestation of that animosity.

It's not actually the OSHP. The organization is a political instrument of the governor. When the governor wants to oppose a firearm law, but doesn't want to be seen as anti-gun, he has the OSHP oppose it and then cites "law enforcement concerns" as his justification for his own opposition.

I agree. I saw this in practice during the Taft administration. Upper management in the OSP may wear uniforms, but they are political. These people give cover to the pols.

Many of the rank-and-file tend to take their cues from their upper management. In my experience, as a group, the OSP is much more anti-concealed carry than any other law enforcement organization in Ohio.

Ohio's CHL law spans three administrations and their attitude seems to remain constant. Just an observation.

[Tweed Ring]

Prior to the Voinovich Administration, there were some periodic efforts at passing a concealed carry law in Ohio. Under 8 years of Governor Voinovich, this proposal languished in our OGA.

Candidate Taft gave full-throated support to the concept – Governor Taft did what he could do to submarine the legislation.

He used the OSP as his blocking mechanism, stating he would support Ohio CHL’s, but the Patrol upper management and administration “was against the concept due to concerns for officer safety.”

I knew a few of those administrators. Then, as now, they do what the governor tells them to do. State of Ohio Department heads take their direction from their boss. Their boss was and is the state’s governor.

In my mind, the claim of “I’d support CHL legislation, but the Patrol just won’t let me…” speaks of weak leadership, or speaks of weasel-mouthing, or of both.

Like a number of concerned citizens, I lobbied my elected representatives in person, because I disagreed with the reticence of the then-governor.

The gun rights organizations and the OGA carried the water, then dropped the Bill onto the governor’s desk, and appeared to dare him to veto it. I believe he signed the proposal into law as that was the path of least resistance.

[Werz]

Not sure if it can be seen or not but he tells us to hold our hands out the window for the duration of the stop. Personally I don't find that to be routine. Although I suppose I have a limited subset of interactions to go on there.

I don't think being told to stick one's hands out the window for the duration of a traffic stop is normal either. I wouldn't care to do that myself, especially on a cold, windy, wet day. If that's the new standard it's over the top in my opinion.

I would think it better than you and your passengers being told to remove your whole bodies from the vehicle as a matter of course, which is, indeed, constitutionally acceptable, even without reasonable suspicion of more nefarious crimes. Pennsylvania v. Mimms, 434 U.S. 106 (1977); Maryland v. Wilson, 519 U.S. 408 (1997)