A scenario I had never considered.

Use this forum to post your experience with encounters with law enforcement, criminals, or other encounters as a result of your firearm or potential to be carrying one.

Moderators: Coordinators, Moderators

Re: A scenario I had never considered.

Postby Mrs. Anderson » Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:11 pm

Hi folks, just an update to anyone interested: Today I went to the sheriff's department, with court order in hand, and (almost) without incident- had my firearm, magazine and AMMUNITION returned to me. :D

Initially I was expecting to have the same problems that I encountered the last time they returned this gun to me, but amazingly I did not. There were no issues or objections concerning the return of my ammunition, and there was no question as to just how exactly they were going to return the firearm to me either. If you do not know or remember, this is in direct contrast to the last time they returned my firearm. The last time they returned this gun to me they litterally had no clue as to how they were going to do it. They didn't want to return it to me inside the jail, as "ordinary" (for lack of a better term) citizens aren't legally allowed to be in possesion of firearms inside the jail- but also did not want to be seen giving me the firearm back outside of the jail. This time they were actually prepared and had a procedure, albeit a faulty one, that they followed this time around.

The last time they returned it they took 10 minutes just trying to "plan" the actual return of the gun, and settled on giving it to me and telling me to "hide it" on the way out. That's right- I was directed to conceal/hide the pistol on my person while leaving and had to exit the jail without so much as an escort to see me to the door. I don't know what was so unsettling to me about having to walk through yhe Lucas County Sheriff's department/Lucas County jail with a pistol concealed on me with no escort whatsoever... except maybe that it is ILLEGAL for me to do so, and a felony at that lol. I can laugh about it now, but I'm not going to lie and say I wasn't thinking of the possibility of being setup and busted on camera for carrying a gun while inside the jail with my only defense being to say "but they told me too".

This time they delivered it all in a sturdy, sealed plastic envelope and told me not to open it until I get home. Now this is at least a step in the right direction, since they actually appeared to know what to do this time around. But I think their procedure still needs some work, as I basically had to sign a paper saying the firearm, magazine, and ammunition had been returned to- before even recieving the bag... and even then I was still not allowed to verify the contents until leaving the jail (and according to them, going home).

While I find this unacceptable, I rolled the dice and signed it anyway because quite frankly, I feel like they WANT me to make an issue out of it, and I wasn't there to argue in any shape or form- and they were already not in the best of moods because I didn't "make an appointment". They told me to "come back Monday or Tuesday" (yes, they said "or Tuesday") to pick it up... but refused to say they were refusing to give it to me. They repeatedly said they "were not refusing to give it to me, and that they were going to return it" just not today- but when I pressed them to acknowledge that they were at least "refusing to return it today" they refused to acknowledge that it was indeed what they were doing, and finally decided to follow the court order. Apparently they leave at 3 and it was 2:45 and it was an inconvenience to them. I assured them that the situation was just as big of an inconvenience to me, as it was to them- which is a huge understatement, and finally, rather than admit and agree that they were refusing to give it to me today, they gave in and released it.

There was no mention of their "policy" on not returning ammunition under any circumstances, and it was included in the envelope. This is a good thing because to this day I still wonder about the bullets they kept, and being the paranoid kind of guy I am, still think of the possibility of them showing up at some kind of rime scene in an attempt to set me up. Go ahead and laugh, no cop(s) has/have ever framed anyone I'm sure. (puts tinfoil hat back on)

I thanked them for the return and told them next time (sadly, I don't think this will be the last time I will have to go retrieve my property from them) I will come earlier in the day, to which they replied "call first and make an appointment". I said okay, but after further consideration I have came to the conclusion that I most likely will not make an appointment- but rather come to pick it up as soon as the court orders them to release it. I mean, why should I have to wait to have returned to me what is rightfully mine and ordered to be released?

When they asked why I couldn't come back next week and get it, I only offered them the excuse that the answer was personnel, but truthfully, I was just eager to be reunited with my .40 and begin practicing with it over the weekend. I've been carrying the G43 this whole time and honestly, it just doesn't give me the same peace of mind that my G27 does.

While I wasn't completely satisfied with the process, I have to admit that it was a MUCH better process than the last time.

Now I am speculating here, but I believe this to be a direct result of my previous dealings with them, i.e. formally complaining about the unjust destruction of my property (my CLOSED beer lol) and the unlawful deprivation of my property (my ammo) and the fact I've let it slide for the last time, not to mention the ruckus I had with internal affairs over their refusal to release the 911 recordings to me, "for the safety of the victim" despite... or perhaps IN spite of the fact that I wanted them to prove my innocence. In any event while I may have lost the battle, I won the war... and will be much better prepared should anything like this happen again in the future. 8)

I know there are some forum readers who loathe reading such a long post, so to those folks- I am sorry if you wasted your time reading this, I will need to remember to start off with a disclaimer next time: Warning, this post might be too long for you. If so, please disregard it and move on to something else, as this post is an update for those who want to know how this situation has ended for me.

And if anyone is wondering why I am replying under my wife's name, its because I still have issues logging in or even resetting my password with mine. And to those who provided their constructive feedback, I thank you.
Mrs. Anderson
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: A scenario I had never considered.

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:18 pm

Steps in the right direction.

As to the length of your post, I would have liked to know more, actually.

How did their faces look when you wanted them to admit they were refusing to return your items "today"?

Did they just look annoyed or did their faces pinch up into a snarl? :)

You just can't beat a good narrative. Anyone that cannot handle consuming a few hundred words to learn about the evils that dwell amongst us as civil servants or the triumphs of their masters should be shunned and their reading efforts relegated to the likes of Dr. Seuss.

IMHO. :wink:
MyWifeSaidYes
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
 
Posts: 5404
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Re: A scenario I had never considered.

Postby docachna » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:24 pm

I hope that recording app in your cell phone was working splendidly during the whole wretched encounter. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE
docachna
 
Posts: 1970
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:26 am
Location: Mount Juliet TN

Re: A scenario I had never considered.

Postby Mrs. Anderson » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:28 pm

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
How did their faces look when you wanted them to admit they were refusing to return your items "today"?

Did they just look annoyed or did their faces pinch up into a snarl? :)



Haha, a little bit of both actually. First it was the pinched face. Her lips were pressed pretty tight as she contemplated her response, which was a change from the smile she normally has. The woman is fairly nice and has a great smile, but I know I am a thorn in her side (which all started when I requested information on the disposition of a rifle they had taken... which to this date I have yet to receive- she says they destroyed it but don't know when and don't have the paperwork for it :shock: despite the law mandating such). Inside I'm sure it was a snarl, but I think she is just to nice of a woman to be able to show it.

Actually, since you like details, you will probably find it interesting (I know I did) that when I arrived and told the receptionist what I was there for, she told me ok and to have a seat outside her office. She called the property room manager and said "guess what? Mark Anderson is here". So apparently I am known by name there, which is a bit of a surprise- but not a total one. The way she said "guess what?" followed by the way she emphasized my name... well I am still trying to process it really.

So the property room officer comes out and ask what I need and I tell her. She ask if I have a court order, and I tell her yes. She asks for it and proceeds to read it, and then re-read it. After she is done she says that she is leaving and I will have to come back next week. I replied that I was told the property room was open until 4 pm... which is true, I was told that... years ago when I wanted to pick up this very same gun the first time they had it. She said that was incorrect and that the property room was only open until 3. I looked at my watch and it was now 2:50.

She went and got her superior who started the whole "we're not refusing to give it to you, we're going to return your gun, you just have to come back next week" spiel. It was almost like watching a painful game of chess during a stalemate the way they refused to at least acknowledge that they were refusing to return it THAT day. Finally, he looked at her and told her to return it. He reiterated before leaving the office that they were indeed going to give it to me, they weren't going to keep it, it was just that they had procedures to follow. I told him I understood, and reminded him that I was there before 3 (I got there just after 2:30 actually) and offered a quick anecdote of a job at a grocery store I had as a teenager- one that required me to lock the doors at closing time, not a minute before, because that was what time we were open until.

When she came out with my property, that's when she looked more annoyed that anything. I wanted to joke and say "at least you're getting in a couple of minutes of overtime" but I couldn't bring myself to do it as she clearly was not in the mood. The poor woman probably didn't get to leave the office until 3:10, and on a Friday at that, while her colleague left at 3 PM sharp lol.

docachna wrote:I hope that recording app in your cell phone was working splendidly during the whole wretched encounter. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


As a matter of fact, it did! I went with a stealth video recorder that records unobtrusively while the screen stays off. I am still trying to decide on a constant-on body camera though, if there are any suggestions.
Mrs. Anderson
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: A scenario I had never considered.

Postby WY_Not » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:31 am

Oh boohoo. :roll: The poor dear had to work past 3pm on a Friday. Oh the horror, the humanity. :wink:
Learn how Project Appleseed is supporting freedom through Marksmanship and Heritage clinics.

Samuel Adams wrote:If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.
User avatar
WY_Not
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 2109
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 10:15 pm
Location: Miami County, OH

Re: A scenario I had never considered.

Postby rufus » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:17 pm

Mr. Anderson wrote:

There's a lot more to this story and the problems I've endured but I need to get a few hours of sleep before work. I'll say this though... even when the victim wasn't there a second time... rather than ask to proceed with the trial, or even give me an answer to how many days were left according to the speedy trial statutes (which I am guessing is just two or three days, taking into considerartion his motion for a continuance) he asked to have the case dismissed... with prejiduce. And later I read on the court dockets that it was recomended by the prosecutor. He then proceeds to tell me they can reinstate the charges any time they want to. So much for not having that uncertainty hanging over my head. He has withdrawn from my case now, and I can't get my handgun back without a court order. He didn't even seek to have my firearm returned after dismissal, depite that being the only shred of "evidence" of this guy's story.

Moral of the story... you tell me.


Unless I am mistaken the "dismissed with Prejudice" would forbid a party from refiling the case, and might occur either because of misconduct on the part of the party who filed the claim or criminal complaint or could be the result of an out of court agreement or settlement. Dismissal without prejudice (in latin, "Salvis Juribus"[1]) would leave the party an option to refile, and is often a response to procedural or technical problems with the filing that the party could correct when filing again. If the case was dismissed with prejudice it would seem to be it would be pretty easy to get a court order for the firearm return. NOT A LAWYER just using google.
rufus
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:53 pm
Location: Wayne County

Re: A scenario I had never considered.

Postby Mrs. Anderson » Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:42 pm

Good catch, that was my typo error. It was never specified when he asked the judge, and the docket didn't specify either- but since he told me charges could be re-instituted if the guy (Douglas Gabenski for anyone who would like to view this guys rap sheet... which is available here: https://www.tmc-clerk.com/caseinformation/criminaltraffic/Default.aspx and here: http://courtsvr.sylvaniacourt.com/) decided he wanted to "push the issue".

The guy actually had a court appearance scheduled yesterday for failing to adhere to previous court orders, whether he showed or not I haven't yet been able to determine. He's got some jail time suspended under conditions he has not complied with.

I find it hard to believe the lawyer was able to get the case dismissed merely because the victim failed to appear one time- especially when he showed up on three or four other times. From any cases I've ever seen, they usually continue it for a couple more dates before dropping it. Strangely it was immediately after I read the report and pointed out that the exact same story had taken place 3 weeks before- so I'm going out on a limb here, but I am thinking they realized not only did they not have a shred of direct evidence, but that the chances of this exact same incident (i.e. me pulling a gun on him, pointing it at him and pulling the trigger, and the gun failing to go off) happening two times in one month in the exact same manor... over a raccoon in the dumpster.

The prosecutions case was weak plain and simple. But sadly that didn't keep me from spending my 4th of July weekend in a dirty jail getting bit by bedbugs, spending thousands on bail and renting a new place to live, etc.

But I digress. Lesson(s) learned. Record EVERYTHING. Call the police before someone else calls them on you. And skip the public defender no matter how weak the case is.

And yes, such a major inconvenience to have to stay over ten minutes to return my property. To me it seems (from the way she said call and make an appointment when I told her next time I would come earlier) they just want some last form of control... anything they can do to control some part of the situation, no matter how small. Anything they can do to make you jump through one last bureaucratic hoop in an effort to assert some sort of perception off dominance.
Mrs. Anderson
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: A scenario I had never considered.

Postby ArmedPatriots » Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:34 am

Mr. Anderson wrote:Hello everyone. It's been awhile. You may or may not remember a little while back (couldn't log in with my original name or recover my password for some reason or another) the story of me being detained and having my firearm seized without cause, simply because the sheriff did not know whether or not my carrying of a firearm was "allowed" since I hold the Florida permit as an Ohio resident. (Mark Anderson... viewtopic.php?f=6&t=61491&hilit=took+gun+have+nice+day&start=300 ) Well that wasn't anything more than a drop in the bucket compared to what I'm going through now, and I feel the need to share this story.

Ive had ***hole neighbors like this in the past.
I dont give them the chance to call the cops the first time...*I* call them....up to and including eight times in one single day.
They want to play games and make my life miserable....I'll reciprocate.
Sorry that all this crap happened to you....I cant believe that the cops even arrested you given the details. Some cops are great....some are worthless scumbags who I think stole a badge somewhere. Dont get me started on what happened when I called the cops when my young son was almost kidnapped by a pedophile in a Cadillac.

For me the moral of the story is 'do unto others before they do unto you"
Be the one who calls the cops first.
Yeah, it annoys the crap out of them but if youre the law abiding one it does let them know that you WANT to be the one doing the right thing and you want to just be left the hell alone.
My neighbors here who get out of line get the cops called on them the first time and I go straight to the manager and give them the ultimatum.....its them or me. And since Ive been here so long its always them getting the eviction warning and then the 3 day eviction notice.

As youve seen from your experience some people are basically mindless animals....rabid dogs....and you cant let a rabid dog run around free...and you cant ignore it. You have to deal harshly with it the first time it does something out of line or you get bit.
Yeah...many of my neighbors have hated me...but one thing is for certain...theyre evicted and gone long before they have a chance to ever make me have to get to a point where I feel like I may need to defend myself.
Well, except the few times they've brought dogs in that arent allowed to be here and theyve tried to bite...which makes me love living in Ohio....ORC 955.28....best law on the books as far as biting dogs go.
Isnt it ironic that the anti gun agenda response to defenseless people being murdered is to try to make them even more defenseless...
User avatar
ArmedPatriots
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:54 am

Re: A scenario I had never considered.

Postby A_F » Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:38 pm

Mr Anderson did the protection order get dropped?
A_F
 
Posts: 361
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:51 pm

Re: A scenario I had never considered.

Postby Mrs. Anderson » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:47 am

A_F wrote:Mr Anderson did the protection order get dropped?


They dismissed the TPO when they dismissed the case.
Mrs. Anderson
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: A scenario I had never considered.

Postby Jakor » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:25 pm

. . . and the rest of the story is?

This makes zero sense. None. Sorry.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from it's government." - Thomas Paine
User avatar
Jakor
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:20 pm
Location: Gallia County

Re: A scenario I had never considered.

Postby BEAR! » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:17 am

Jakor wrote:. . . and the rest of the story is?

This makes zero sense. None. Sorry.



Mr. Anderson had to become Mrs. Anderson. :mrgreen:
NRA Endowment Member
OFCC Member

"Life is tough, its even tougher when you're stupid"- John Wayne

http://theoldtimeway.blogspot.com/
User avatar
BEAR!
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:00 am
Location: S.W. Montgomery county

Re: A scenario I had never considered.

Postby Thanlon23 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:07 pm

Every time he harassed you and your wife, you guys should have called the cops. Then there would have been a trail of his harassment after the first encounter and maybe you wouldn't have been arrested at all. Heck, maybe he would have been arrested for menacing.
Thanlon23
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:22 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Previous

Return to Real Life Encounters

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests