Hypothetical
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Hypothetical
So this should be fairly an easy question but I was looking for input. To preface, I work a swing shift which leads me working until 3-4am, having said that I do not sleep at night to well. I live in a condo community in the suburbs, yet I have country right out my door as well, my view is a corn field. I enjoy going for walks later at night when I cant sleep as a way to relax a bit and also get some fresh air and not have to be around a bunch of people.
Anyways having said that, I mainly carry like the rest of you all for protection, a Glock 33 by my side. So living in the burbs but on the edge of country, we get quite a few animals at night, coyotes are very active around here, I have seen some rather large ones roam near and around the community and in packs of 3-5. I understand that they typically do not bother humans, but if one gets really hungry and decides my fat self looks like a meaty dinner (how disappointed will they be with the fat content over meat LOL) and I am forced to discharge my firearm, would a call to LEO be necessary? To add, if it runs off back into the wooded area or whatever, not knowing if it is hit?
What had me thinking about that now and never in the past was I had a rather large one cross paths with me tonight, it did run away rather quickly but ya never know what they are going to do.
Anyways having said that, I mainly carry like the rest of you all for protection, a Glock 33 by my side. So living in the burbs but on the edge of country, we get quite a few animals at night, coyotes are very active around here, I have seen some rather large ones roam near and around the community and in packs of 3-5. I understand that they typically do not bother humans, but if one gets really hungry and decides my fat self looks like a meaty dinner (how disappointed will they be with the fat content over meat LOL) and I am forced to discharge my firearm, would a call to LEO be necessary? To add, if it runs off back into the wooded area or whatever, not knowing if it is hit?
What had me thinking about that now and never in the past was I had a rather large one cross paths with me tonight, it did run away rather quickly but ya never know what they are going to do.
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G;ock 32 .357sig/Sig Saur 3in 1911 .45acp
Ohio CHL since 1/29/2009
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Those who trade liberty for security have neither. ~John Adams
G;ock 32 .357sig/Sig Saur 3in 1911 .45acp
Ohio CHL since 1/29/2009
PA Non-Res 10/12/2010
Those who trade liberty for security have neither. ~John Adams
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Re: Hypothetical
Almost all cities, suburbs, etc. have some law on the books regarding the discharging of firearms. If it was me doing the shooting, I would inform the local law enforcement. I'd figure it's better that they hear what happened from me instead of someone else calling in and making it look like there's an active shooter situation.
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Member: NRA/OFCC/AAA/GER/AFG
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I Am Not A Lawyer, But I Have Played One In Real Life
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Re: Hypothetical
Thats the thought I had, especially since there are 213 condos in this community plus a rental community with the same or more units right next door.
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G;ock 32 .357sig/Sig Saur 3in 1911 .45acp
Ohio CHL since 1/29/2009
PA Non-Res 10/12/2010
Those who trade liberty for security have neither. ~John Adams
G;ock 32 .357sig/Sig Saur 3in 1911 .45acp
Ohio CHL since 1/29/2009
PA Non-Res 10/12/2010
Those who trade liberty for security have neither. ~John Adams
- 502ci
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Re: Hypothetical
Simply carry an air horn can if coyotes get too close...might wake up someone also in the process but so would a gunshot and that has consequences like you mentioned. I have used them in the past and have never seen a coyote stick around after you push that button. I live in a township and can fire my weapon, I also have done so to scare off coyotes but will not shoot them unless I really had to...they have been around my dogs (which I never let out of my sight) and I still choose to just scare them off.
Nothing to see here...move along.
- BobK
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Re: Hypothetical
First, I like the air horn approach as well.
But if you have to shoot . . .
Whoever calls in first gets to be the complainant. There is only one other role open in the play, and that's the perpetrator. Gunshots can easily be heard a mile away, so you can assume that someone will call in a complaint. You want to be the one who makes the telephone call. You by default become the perp if you do not make the call in. The system is keyed on the assumption that whoever made that initial call is the victim.
But if you have to shoot . . .
Whoever calls in first gets to be the complainant. There is only one other role open in the play, and that's the perpetrator. Gunshots can easily be heard a mile away, so you can assume that someone will call in a complaint. You want to be the one who makes the telephone call. You by default become the perp if you do not make the call in. The system is keyed on the assumption that whoever made that initial call is the victim.
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This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
More Obamination. Idiots. Can't we find an electable (R) for 2016?
- SeanC
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Re: Hypothetical
Firearms are really poor choices for shooting at small, low, fast-moving animals like coyotes. If that's your concern, grab some OC for your walks.
Self-defense is a complete defense to all crimes, including discharging a firearm within city limits and all manner of wildlife violations. It's still your burden to prove the defense, so you still might end up with a charge and a court date if the officer who responds doesn't believe your story.
Self-defense is a complete defense to all crimes, including discharging a firearm within city limits and all manner of wildlife violations. It's still your burden to prove the defense, so you still might end up with a charge and a court date if the officer who responds doesn't believe your story.
I am a lawyer; I am not your lawyer.
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Re: Hypothetical
Cell phone video...Varmints are getting use to humans, they don't scare so easily anymore...at least around where I leave....a pack of 5 that are hungry is nothing to mess with....I think it would be easy for LE to believe you and your story.....your a resident out for a walk and sober....
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Re: Hypothetical
All very valid points and well taken. I do have some other devices I carry like a bright light and some OC spray but was looking at the OH CRAP moment when nothing works.
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G;ock 32 .357sig/Sig Saur 3in 1911 .45acp
Ohio CHL since 1/29/2009
PA Non-Res 10/12/2010
Those who trade liberty for security have neither. ~John Adams
G;ock 32 .357sig/Sig Saur 3in 1911 .45acp
Ohio CHL since 1/29/2009
PA Non-Res 10/12/2010
Those who trade liberty for security have neither. ~John Adams
- dcludwig
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Re: Hypothetical
I think the air horn is an excellent idea and could be used if walking in an urban neighborhood and approached by an unfriendly canine. As far as coyotes, do they normally travel in packs, and if so, an attack by several of them might be fatal, would it not?
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Re: Hypothetical
Very much could be. I was talking to a neighbor who thinks they could be coydogs. The biggest one I seen in the group was nearly the size of a full sized german Sheparddcludwig wrote:I think the air horn is an excellent idea and could be used if walking in an urban neighborhood and approached by an unfriendly canine. As far as coyotes, do they normally travel in packs, and if so, an attack by several of them might be fatal, would it not?
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G;ock 32 .357sig/Sig Saur 3in 1911 .45acp
Ohio CHL since 1/29/2009
PA Non-Res 10/12/2010
Those who trade liberty for security have neither. ~John Adams
G;ock 32 .357sig/Sig Saur 3in 1911 .45acp
Ohio CHL since 1/29/2009
PA Non-Res 10/12/2010
Those who trade liberty for security have neither. ~John Adams
- WY_Not
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Re: Hypothetical
All the ones I've seen at the family farm have been single or pair. Pairs occasionally had their pups with them if they were old enough. Most usually run as soon as they see you. Have never encountered any that didn't run from an adult human.
Feral dogs on the other hand are not something you want to mess with, no fear of humans and vicious.
We hear the coyotes quite frequently at night, usually sounds like more than one or two but no way of knowing.
Feral dogs on the other hand are not something you want to mess with, no fear of humans and vicious.
We hear the coyotes quite frequently at night, usually sounds like more than one or two but no way of knowing.
dcludwig wrote:I think the air horn is an excellent idea and could be used if walking in an urban neighborhood and approached by an unfriendly canine. As far as coyotes, do they normally travel in packs, and if so, an attack by several of them might be fatal, would it not?
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- AlanM
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Re: Hypothetical
Concerning size of coyotes: the first coyote I ever saw was in the wild in the Idaho desert.
Since the Navy watered far beyond the chain link fence around the site the was, at least, one herd of antelope that grazed just outside on the lush (and rare) grass. I was watching the herd when they suddenly spooked and took off at warp speed.
If asked at the time I would have sworn what loped into my view was a large German shepherd but I was assured that it was a coyote. Only the large and tough 'yotes survive in that desert.
Since the Navy watered far beyond the chain link fence around the site the was, at least, one herd of antelope that grazed just outside on the lush (and rare) grass. I was watching the herd when they suddenly spooked and took off at warp speed.
If asked at the time I would have sworn what loped into my view was a large German shepherd but I was assured that it was a coyote. Only the large and tough 'yotes survive in that desert.
AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
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There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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Re: Hypothetical
Alan..What the heck is a Submariner doing in the desert ?
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- AlanM
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Re: Hypothetical
Qualifying on the USS Nautilus (SSN-571), nuclear power plant prototype, S1W.carmen fovozzo wrote:Alan..What the heck is a Submariner doing in the desert ?
I wondered if anyone would trigger on that.
Back in the late '60's there was a discussion going on in the US Congress as to how and where the large guns for the USS New Jersey should/could be tested before the ship was re-commissioned for duty in Vietnam.
Someone said "Well, just test them out in the Idaho desert where we tested them the first time."
A congress critter from Idaho got up and said that that wasn't a viable option since, at the time there were about 40 nuclear reactors operating in that desert.
The US Navy had four. One each in S1W and S5G and two in A1W.
AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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Re: Hypothetical
Hypo, being retired from law enforcement I'd say your decision should be based on the attitude of your local law enforcement agency.
Do you have any information concerning their attitude towards gun owners and/or self-defense use of firearms?
If the agency is anti-gun and you self-report firing a shot and there is no coyote carcass in evidence, you're going to jail. Even if there IS a coyote carcass and you bear no injuries from being mauled, you're going to jail. They'll know you're innocent. The purpose of the arrest will be to make an example of you.
Research this. If your research reveals unfavorable information, my advice if you need to fire a shot under the circumstances you describe is to melt quietly and unobtrusively into the night.
Do you have any information concerning their attitude towards gun owners and/or self-defense use of firearms?
If the agency is anti-gun and you self-report firing a shot and there is no coyote carcass in evidence, you're going to jail. Even if there IS a coyote carcass and you bear no injuries from being mauled, you're going to jail. They'll know you're innocent. The purpose of the arrest will be to make an example of you.
Research this. If your research reveals unfavorable information, my advice if you need to fire a shot under the circumstances you describe is to melt quietly and unobtrusively into the night.
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Captain "Bull" Neal, Cincinnati Police Division
Captain "Bull" Neal, Cincinnati Police Division