Got close to shooting a dog earlier..

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Got close to shooting a dog earlier..

Postby bsctov » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:26 pm

So a few hours ago, my brother decided to film another one of his video logs, and asked me to come along to hold the camera for him. (He's trying to start a YouTube channel). We arrive at a small park not far from my house, close to the water, near a boat launch. I'm holding the camera and watching him talk through the screen, and all of a sudden I see him jump back and duck out of the way, and hear some guy in the distance yell "EY GET BACK HERE!!" .. I turn around and see a large, dark colored dog running at me, and as it got closer I could hear him growling. I had my hand on my glock 19 IWB but did not draw. The dog just stopped and was growing at me, i felt his nose touch my leg, and he eventually obeyed the owners commands and returned to his truck, but for that brief moment, I legitimately thought the dog was going to jump on me and bite the crap out of me. I'm not sure why I didn't draw, I just made a quick decision to only shoot if the dog bit me, which in hindsight seems like a poor course of action, but luckily no shots fire, didn't clear kydex, i was still filming when it happened but it was quite dark outside, and you can only hear me cussing and see the camera shake.

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Re: Got close to shooting a dog earlier..

Postby Aesinsp » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:27 am

My two cents(value debatable).. Thank you for not making the local news!

My short review: I was bitten by dog as a youngster (twice.. still not either dogs fault in my mind)
I'm glad you had the where-with-all to not empty rounds into someone's dog unnecessarily.
Clearly you are not LE-material (I'm kidding, mostly).

While not a tree hugger, I do appreciate a loyal canine doing what they do.
Talk to you later Capt' clean-Underpants.

FYI, I appreciate our LE and Military - Carry on!
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Re: Got close to shooting a dog earlier..

Postby Brian D. » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:12 am

I really really like dogs and normally they sense that, hence sometimes I can get one that is just being protective to calm down a bit. And I would very much be saddened to shoot a dog, because its aggressive nature may have been beaten into it by a human to begin with.

But that said, years ago (high school cross country team days, 1970 something) I was out running and suddenly a German Shepherd/Rottweiler mix came after me snarling and on the attack. Without getting bit I got hold of the dog's neck and spun around a couple of times, finally pitching the beast out into the road next to the sidewalk I'd been running on. Probbaly looked like a track and field hammer throw. Timing was such that a 5 ton delivery truck ran over the animal and killed it on the spot.

I wasn't trying to do that but now the dog's owner appears and I've got another angry threat on my hands. He's sure I just murdered his precious angel and starts to come at teenage me himself. Thank goodness the truck driver and his helper had stopped and came over to the roadside. You know the guy wouldn't calm down even when the police (finally) showed up and the dude went to jail for menacing, as he'd threatened me, the truck crew, and even the cop too.

When the dog owner got released, my dad and a couple of his friends went to see the gentleman and ended up giving him a bit of a physical "attitude adjustment". (I never knew anything about that part for years and years by the way.) Anyhow there was no fall out from the incidents and my understanding was that the dog's owner started acting much more like a model citizen than the dirtbag he'd been previously.

So yeah, I can kill a dog if I have to, it's just a darn shame for that to happen.
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Re: Got close to shooting a dog earlier..

Postby carmen fovozzo » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:10 am

bsctov...I like your sense of humor.....I most likely would of drew if he came that close, depending on the breed.....you can always change your underwear...
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Re: Got close to shooting a dog earlier..

Postby rickt » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:17 am

There is no way I would wait for the dog to bite me. There are cases of people losing arms and legs due to bacterial infection from dog bites.

http://www.wagsandwhiskers.com/component/content/article?id=194:capnocytophaga-canimorsus-sometimes-the-bark-is-way-worse-than-the-bite-
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Re: Got close to shooting a dog earlier..

Postby phillip » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:19 pm

bsctov wrote: .. I turn around and see a large, dark colored dog running at me, and as it got closer I could hear him growling. I had my hand on my glock 19 IWB but did not draw..... I legitimately thought the dog was going to jump on me and bite the crap out of me. I'm not sure why I didn't draw, I just made a quick decision to only shoot if the dog bit me, which in hindsight seems like a poor course of action...


Know my comment comes from one who has been sent all over the USA in animal rescues after catastrophes; so we obviously love animals and want to see no harm come to them if possible.

I think you may want to just sit quietly in a corner with no distractions for some time and think thru what you said above. consider all the scenarios you can think of. I bet at the end you will be able to stand up and say somebitc I f-uped up BIG time!

NOT clearing your holster and having your firearm held at low ready in front of you, there is absolutely ZERO way you could ever have done so in time to protect yourself if that dog did decide to rush you. Remember Tueller drill; a jump from that dog and you would have been down WAY before you could pull your firearm.

While it began biting you, your hands would have been totally busy trying to save yourself and there is no way you would have ever gotten your gun out during that.

Thank you for posting this! I believe before reading this, I too would have f-uped big time, but it is now clear that I will follow through and be low ready if it happens to me!
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Re: Got close to shooting a dog earlier..

Postby troy bilt » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:27 pm

Brian D your dad sounds like a bad butt :D

I think I would of drawn if the dog was that close. Maybe the owner would in the future keep a better hold of his friend if he thought he might be shot next time he was aggressive like that.
I have struggled with dyslexia my entire life. I know it's spelled wrong but thanks for pointing it out.
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Re: Got close to shooting a dog earlier..

Postby High Power » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:30 am

Drawing on a menacing animal and making a spilt-second decision to shoot are always tough decisions. Those decisions, in the real world, can be very subjective. Just as in using lethal force against a person; you will ALWAYS get second guessed by either the legal system, the media, or the animal rights crowd.

I've had to draw on both dogs and humans. Fortunately, I never had to squeeze the trigger. I pray that I'll never have to squeeze a trigger on someone or animal that might be someone's pet. So I have an idea of how you feel.

Fortunately, you also have the law on your side. Read this out of the ORC:

955.28 Dog may be killed for certain acts - owner liable for damages.
(A) Subject to divisions (A)(2) and (3) of section 955.261 of the Revised Code, a dog that is chasing or approaching in a menacing fashion or apparent attitude of attack, that attempts to bite or otherwise endanger, or that kills or injures a person or a dog that chases, threatens, harasses, injures, or kills livestock, poultry, other domestic animal, or other animal, that is the property of another person, except a cat or another dog, can be killed at the time of that chasing, threatening, harassment, approaching, attempt, killing, or injury. If, in attempting to kill such a dog, a person wounds it, the person is not liable to prosecution under the penal laws that punish cruelty to animals. Nothing in this section precludes a law enforcement officer from killing a dog that attacks a police dog as defined in section 2921.321 of the Revised Code.

(B) The owner, keeper, or harborer of a dog is liable in damages for any injury, death, or loss to person or property that is caused by the dog, unless the injury, death, or loss was caused to the person or property of an individual who, at the time, was committing or attempting to commit criminal trespass or another criminal offense other than a minor misdemeanor on the property of the owner, keeper, or harborer, or was committing or attempting to commit a criminal offense other than a minor misdemeanor against any person, or was teasing, tormenting, or abusing the dog on the owner's, keeper's, or harborer's property. Additionally, the owner, keeper, or harborer of a dog is liable in damages for any injury, death, or loss to person or property that is caused by the dog if the injury, death, or loss was caused to the person or property of an individual who, at the time of the injury, death, or loss, was on the property of the owner, keeper, or harborer solely for the purpose of engaging in door-to-door sales or other solicitations regardless of whether the individual was in compliance with any requirement to obtain a permit or license to engage in door-to-door sales or other solicitations established by the political subdivision in which the property of the owner, keeper, or harborer is located, provided that the person was not committing a criminal offense other than a minor misdemeanor or was not teasing, tormenting, or abusing the dog.

Effective Date: 07-10-1987; 2008 HB71 09-30-2008


I am not an attorney. Therefore my advice is free. If I were an attorney, I would have to charge you for my advice. With that said, my advice is not legal advice but merely an observation and interpretation of an educated laymen who makes the study of law a hobby. I've had too many ex-wives...

With that said, you would have been justified with shooting the dog. However, you would have to suffer any immediate and long term fallout. As someone pointed out after shooting said menacing canine, you would then have to deal with a possibly aggressive and antagonistic owner of the dead animal. If and when that happens, you really need to make sure every split-second decision you make can stand up to the scrutiny of a Jury. Keep in mind the people trying you may have never been in a fist fight, may have never been attacked by a person or an animal. So they have absolutely no concept of the emotions, fear and stress a person goes through when being attacked.

In a conversation with a friend about using deadly force, I was giving him the benefit of some of my experiences. So, I can comfortably pass on this advice to anyone. About 99% of us have thought about when and when not to pull a trigger on someone or something. We've gone through the "what ifs" in our minds several if not numerous times. But how many of us have considered what we should do and what we should say AFTER a shooting?

So I told my friend; some attorneys charge upwards of $300 per hour. Make an appointment with a criminal defense attorney and ask them to tell you what you should do AFTER a shooting. Some people will balk; "Three hundred dollars! That's outrageous! I'll save my money and take my chances."

The $300 you spend for an hour getting educated by a good criminal defense attorney could save you from a long time in prison or from getting stuck with a needle. Think about how much grief you'll save yourself by acting properly to protect yourself AFTER a shooting by the knowledge you get by spending a few hundred dollars to get an education now rather than later.

That's my advice and it's free.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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Re: Got close to shooting a dog earlier..

Postby High Power » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:32 am

phillip wrote:
bsctov wrote: .. I turn around and see a large, dark colored dog running at me, and as it got closer I could hear him growling. I had my hand on my glock 19 IWB but did not draw..... I legitimately thought the dog was going to jump on me and bite the crap out of me. I'm not sure why I didn't draw, I just made a quick decision to only shoot if the dog bit me, which in hindsight seems like a poor course of action...


Know my comment comes from one who has been sent all over the USA in animal rescues after catastrophes; so we obviously love animals and want to see no harm come to them if possible.

I think you may want to just sit quietly in a corner with no distractions for some time and think thru what you said above. consider all the scenarios you can think of. I bet at the end you will be able to stand up and say somebitc I f-uped up BIG time!

NOT clearing your holster and having your firearm held at low ready in front of you, there is absolutely ZERO way you could ever have done so in time to protect yourself if that dog did decide to rush you. Remember Tueller drill; a jump from that dog and you would have been down WAY before you could pull your firearm.

While it began biting you, your hands would have been totally busy trying to save yourself and there is no way you would have ever gotten your gun out during that.

Thank you for posting this! I believe before reading this, I too would have f-uped big time, but it is now clear that I will follow through and be low ready if it happens to me!


Good advice!
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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Re: Got close to shooting a dog earlier..

Postby SMMAssociates » Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:12 pm

Many years ago, I was visiting a cousin's house for a family occasion, and, as usual, had to park in a different zip code....

Walking towards his house, I noticed a HUGE dog heading for me, looking rather intent. A "handler" was trying to get the dog's attention....

I got my hand on my handgun du jour when I noticed a sign for one of those electronic fences, so I hesitated.

The dog stopped....

IMHO, those things cannot be trusted if the dog's upset enough, but this dog was really just a little friendly. We're on our third dog since that happened, and there's always been a fence of some kind. Ours have all been in the sub-25# category, with "lick 'em to death" inclinations :D.

Sammy tended to bark a lot due to territory issues, and I bought him a "bark collar" that would make a gawdawful noise if he barked. He liked it, like a kid's siren on a bike.

Regards,
Stu.

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(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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