Defensive gun use today

[diamondsun]

I see most of these posts are about when and when not to draw your gun....

They should touch more on how not to get to that situation.

Easily said. Like Deanimator, I'm a fan of the cold icy stare. Doesn't always work though. However you deal with folks, something my dad told me seems to keep holding true..."When the other guy decides that you're in a fight, your opinion on the matter doesn't count so much anymore." This guy wanted to fight, tbrew de-escalated it.

[carmen fovozzo]

Yes he did....Right after he escalated it.....he was lucky..had there been a shooting, he wouldn't be so lucky even if he came out on top....he contributed by way of his ego and words...IMO

[pistolepete]

Road Rage I see it alot.I can admit it is hard not to get sucked in.I admit to brake checking a tailgater recently.Afterwads I felt guilty and resolved to not do that again.Part of the problem in Road Rage is perceived fear,when someone is right on my butt and I am going 75+and cannot get over I am in fear for my life.OK I know I am speeding got to work on that too. :l:

[techguy85]

Let me ask you a question, would you have engaged this person in conversation/argument if you had not been armed?
I always tell folks don't let the fact that you are armed allow you to do things that you otherwise would have not done e.g. gone to said part of town, etc.
If anything, I'm more careful about these kinds of things because I am armed.
All in all glad you are alright and that things worked out. But I would suggest that there is something to be learned from as well.

[tbrew85]

Let me ask you a question, would you have engaged this person in conversation/argument if you had not been armed?
I always tell folks don't let the fact that you are armed allow you to do things that you otherwise would have not done e.g. gone to said part of town, etc.
If anything, I'm more careful about these kinds of things because I am armed.
All in all glad you are alright and that things worked out. But I would suggest that there is something to be learned from as well.

Yes. I didnt even considered the firearm until his door flew open. I believe the only thing that would have changed had I not been armed, would have been whether he got out of his vehicle or not. I readily agree, in hindsight, that a better response of "nothing" would likely have resulted in not having to consider it at all.

[docachna]

One thing the OP said that I agree with - you never know how a particular reaction by you is going to resonate with your particular opponent. Some guys, the "Yep! and a smile" from MWSY would confuse them so bad, they would just back down. Another one, it would enrage him to the point of charging. Same response - two totally divergent results.

I tend to look at the end result. This end result was good. To me, that means it turned out well.

[Gaspode]

Ugh. Some of you old people arrhythmia the worst.

Good job OP. You tried to deescalate the situation while being stuck there since your car was getting gas. You handled yourself just as well as anyone else would of. Saying nothing would probably of induced a louder shouting at.

[carmen fovozzo]

Old people.....?

[TSiWRX]

Saying nothing would probably of induced a louder shouting at.

Maybe, maybe not - such an action certainly can be interpreted as being dismissive or disrespectful.

But at least with such a non-reply, one leaves it up to the other party to decide exactly how they wish to proceed.

A strong verbal or non-verbal ("stare-down," "sneer," or other posturing) reply could be construed as a challenge: which then either must be met (and thus further escalated) or declined.

A submissive verbal or non-verbal reply (as I favored) could be interpreted as groveling: which may allow the other party to disengage, or, alternatively, may well cause them to press the issue even more aggressively.

With a noncommittal "non-reply," escalation - or de-escalation - is totally left to the person who initiated contact, and leaves me the ability to explore and prepare what I may well -NEED- to do next to defend myself. The way I see it, this tactic essentially resets the OODA loop for the person who initiated the contact.

[carmen fovozzo]

Dec.8,2012 I proved one point here Alan...

When I was threatened and cussed at I said nothing......idiot threaten to kill me...he was ranting he was going to kick my butt....I said nothing.....he came charging at me at which time I drew my gun and pointed it him...He stopped but kept threatening me..so being quite does not not always work..he was ranting away even while LE was talking to him....

I do believe if I became negative at the beginning and started mouthing off to him that he would of not stopped charging me and I would of defended myself...I got lucky.....But I felt afterwards if had to defend myself I was totally justified in doing so.......had I been a smart butt, I would of felt some guilt..

[deanimator]

Easily said. Like Deanimator, I'm a fan of the cold icy stare.

It's not so much an "icy" stare as simply looking at them as though they were an inanimate object, like a chair or a salad bowl.

When you betray no emotion AT ALL, for them to engage you further is like sticking their hand into a dark hole under a tree. What's down there? Gold doubloons... or a nest of rattlesnakes?

Are you scared of him... or are you inwardly doing handsprings, saying to yourself, "Oh boy, I get to kill somebody today!"

It makes him wonder whether it's going to be worth the risk to find out.

If you haven't got a gold Rolex on your wrist or $20 bills hanging out of your pockets, the odds are that the answer is going to be "no".

[deanimator]

Dec.8,2012 I proved one point here Alan...

When I was threatened and cussed at I said nothing......idiot threaten to kill me...he was ranting he was going to kick my butt....I said nothing.....he came charging at me at which time I drew my gun and pointed it him...He stopped but kept threatening me..so being quite does not not always work..he was ranting away even while LE was talking to him....

I do believe if I became negative at the beginning and started mouthing off to him that he would of not stopped charging me and I would of defended myself...I got lucky.....But I felt afterwards if had to defend myself I was totally justified in doing so.......had I been a smart butt, I would of felt some guilt..

For me it's 50% psyop, 50% refusing to be bothered.

I owe NOTHING to random strangers apart from a minimal degree of courtesy.

• I have no duty to be friendly.
• I have no duty to indulge anyone's psychopathologies.
• I have no duty to stroke their egos.
• I have no duty to entertain them.
• I have no duty to abase myself before them.
• I have no duty to passively subject myself to violence from them.

I have ONLY the duty to leave them alone and obey relevant law.

And that I will do... until such time as they make that impossible.

If they do, if not in home or vehicle, I will attempt to depart (NOT run away) if I can do so IN PERFECT SAFETY.

If they neither leave me alone, nor allow me to depart in peace, as I said previously, the rest is on them... and as far I'm concerned at that point, nothing's off the table.

[WestonDon]

Saying nothing would probably of induced a louder shouting at.

Perhaps. But consider what are witnesses going to tell the cops? That there was a madman yelling threats at some guy before he got shot? Or two guys arguing over a gas pump and one shot the other? Witness perception can have a big impact on your future.

[Tweed Ring]

Typically, there may be a secondary audience. When I trained cops, I told them to be cautious in what they said and/or did because someone might be observing them. Today, someone may be recording...

[cjah09]

Gotta say, if I had witnessed this confrontation, my opinion would be that both parties were responsible for the escalation(as the original post reads to me). Had the OP actually used the gun, he probably would have had an uphill battle proving self defense. Even without witnesses, cameras are everywhere and the cameras would show the verbal argument causing an escalation in the situation. Hopefully, this was a learning experience.