Pulled over for a search?

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Re: Pulled over for a search?

Post by CroManGun »

JediSkipdogg wrote:Don't say that. I personally disagree with some parts of wrongful entrustment. Mainly the part that says you are presumed to know that anyone you live with has a valid license or not. If your kid (or wife) drives your vehicle and has a suspended license because they kept their 20 speeding tickets away from you, you are guilty of wrongful entrustment. Same could apply with one parking ticket they forgot to pay and they got a license forfeiture letter. The ORC says since you live together and are blood related it shall be prima-facia evidence that you knew they did not have a valid license.
If your family is willing to pull that kind of crap, you've got more than just a wrongful entrustment problem. Many years ago, I made it very clear to my family that such actions would not be tolerated; concealing traffic violations would result in PERMANENT loss of driving privileges as long as they resided under my roof. Needless to say, I had no problems in that area.
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Re: Pulled over for a search?

Post by bearkitty »

SeanC wrote:There's not enough info here to answer your question. Unless it was information that you simply withheld, it seems like the prospective buyer is a stranger. For all you know, police could have been investigating her and/or looking for opportunities to stop her/search her. She might be into some stuff that you know nothing about.

Ultimately, it was her rights that were violated. Nothing for you to do about it except (perhaps) look dumb when you call the police to complain and don't have all the facts.

Good Point. Thank you.

She's not exactly a stranger. She's a neighbor that I admittedly know very little about.

I have located the officer invovled and am waiting on a response to my request for info on the stop. I will post more when I know more.

Thanks, all.
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Re: Pulled over for a search?

Post by bearkitty »

I spoke to LEO today, and to my buyer today. The rest of the story:

My buyer had no ID on her when she got stopped!!!

LEO not having any immediate way to positively identify this woman, pretty much informed her that because of no ID and the car being registered to a CHL, he was going to have to search the car for weapons and drugs. I totally understand that. It could have been me, a CHL, no notification, no ID at all...... I can see why he did what he did. It would be out of character for a LAC/CHL to have zero ID...and be as freaked out as she was.

Our physical descriptions are pretty similar too - we're about the same height, weight, hair and eye color, etc. We even live on the same street so I can see it being a little suspicious even if he had her ID in hand, and somehow knows via my plate what is on mine. (I know that's been discussed in another thread...what an LEO might know and when)

He felt terrible because it was dark and raining and she had 3 kids in the car. But like others have stated, even though she had zero idea what was happening and why, that LEO had to do his job. I feel terrible because it simply never occurred to me to tell her that I have a CHL and explain what could happen. If she'd had her DL on her it probably would have gone a different path. He says she wanted to call me but he couldn't delay his search because the whole thing was totally messed up with no ID and her all panicked.

Anyway I'm not selling her the car. I guess she wanted to borrow money from her mechanic dad to complete the sale. Dad gave the car a thumbs-up but refused her a loan.

As for the rest - perception is everything. She still believes she was pulled over simply because of my CHL status. The license lamp has been replaced.

Thanks again!
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Re: Pulled over for a search?

Post by Klingon00 »

SeanC wrote: Ultimately, it was her rights that were violated. Nothing for you to do about it except (perhaps) look dumb when you call the police to complain and don't have all the facts.
I think one take away from this is that if you do not wish to consent to a search of your vehicle, make sure any potential drivers of your vehicle also understand that and can articulate that to the police.

Of course, not having ID makes things a bit difficult regardless since the LEO had reason to pull the car over with a burned out light, and the driver with no required documentation.
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Re: Pulled over for a search?

Post by fisher »

I thought that given a name and DOB , the mobile police computer can pull up a copy of the DL.
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Re: Pulled over for a search?

Post by CroManGun »

bearkitty wrote:I spoke to LEO today, and to my buyer today. The rest of the story:

My buyer had no ID on her when she got stopped!!!

As for the rest - perception is everything. She still believes she was pulled over simply because of my CHL status. The license lamp has been replaced.

Thanks again!
It might be a good idea, in the future, for you to demand ID/DL up front in situations like this. Then again, I ALWAYS ride along on any test drives after checking ID/DL.
Last edited by CroManGun on Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pulled over for a search?

Post by CroManGun »

fisher wrote:I thought that given a name and DOB , the mobile police computer can pull up a copy of the DL.
I witnessed a hit and run a few years ago. I got a real good look at the driver and I caught her plate number and gave it to the LEO on scene. When he pulled up her info and photo on his computer, I confirmed to him that she was the driver.
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Re: Pulled over for a search?

Post by Brian D. »

bearkitty wrote:I spoke to LEO today, and to my buyer today. The rest of the story:

My buyer had no ID on her when she got stopped!!!
Bearkitty, any idea if this woman makes a habit of that? I am not being judgmental by the way, but you can imagine from my perspective as a fire/EMS person, just how that could make a bad situation worse if there's an accident with injuries.

Sorry about the drift here, my PSA for today is done. Tomorrow I'll try to find a thread where I can mention how dumb it is for people not to have a readily visible street address number on their home. :wink:
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Re: Pulled over for a search?

Post by WestonDon »

bearkitty wrote:I spoke to LEO today, and to my buyer today. The rest of the story:

My buyer had no ID on her when she got stopped!!!

LEO not having any immediate way to positively identify this woman, pretty much informed her that because of no ID and the car being registered to a CHL, he was going to have to search the car for weapons and drugs. I totally understand that. It could have been me, a CHL, no notification, no ID at all...... I can see why he did what he did. It would be out of character for a LAC/CHL to have zero ID...and be as freaked out as she was.

Our physical descriptions are pretty similar too - we're about the same height, weight, hair and eye color, etc. We even live on the same street so I can see it being a little suspicious even if he had her ID in hand, and somehow knows via my plate what is on mine. (I know that's been discussed in another thread...what an LEO might know and when)

He felt terrible because it was dark and raining and she had 3 kids in the car. But like others have stated, even though she had zero idea what was happening and why, that LEO had to do his job. I feel terrible because it simply never occurred to me to tell her that I have a CHL and explain what could happen. If she'd had her DL on her it probably would have gone a different path. He says she wanted to call me but he couldn't delay his search because the whole thing was totally messed up with no ID and her all panicked.

Anyway I'm not selling her the car. I guess she wanted to borrow money from her mechanic dad to complete the sale. Dad gave the car a thumbs-up but refused her a loan.

As for the rest - perception is everything. She still believes she was pulled over simply because of my CHL status. The license lamp has been replaced.

Thanks again!
I don't understand that at all. No ID and car not registered to her I get but I don't see how your CHL has anything to do with need to search the car.

I am also confused about the verbal warning about the light and sent on her way with no ID.

I think I must be missing something here.

This why I really dislike selling a car. Way too much drama.
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Re: Pulled over for a search?

Post by JediSkipdogg »

fisher wrote:I thought that given a name and DOB , the mobile police computer can pull up a copy of the DL.
Depends on how common the name is, if they look like the picture, and if there are any warrants out there with similar info. A few weeks ago we dealt with a guy that lied on his info to avoid a warrant. He gave us his brother's info and it matched the description. Funny thing is, his brother had a much more serious warrant and he told us the truth once we told him what his warrant was for. It's doable by name and DOB, but not always accurate.

And the law says you must have the card on you to operate a vehicle. So it's a violation anyways and one in which they could have towed it even if someone else in the vehicle had a valid license and had the card on them.
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Re: Pulled over for a search?

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Everything is moot since the driver consented to the search.

Had she not consented, the LEO's ploy of "the car is registered to a CHL holder so that's RAS that there may be a gun in the car" wouldn't hold up on appeal.
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Re: Pulled over for a search?

Post by bearkitty »

So many questions to answer and so little patience for quoting and answering those questions one by one. :P

I DID get a copy of her DL before I let her take the car for an extended test drive. (more on that later) She went to see her parents who also watch her kids during the day because dad wanted a look at the car. Good so far. She left their house with all 3 kids, but without her purse. She had no ID at the time of the stop.

I can understand the search based on my CHL and her having no ID. Supposing he had my DL pic/stats from my tag - our physical descriptions would be very similar and we live on the same street. Our names and DOB's are not the same, but > How long is he supposed to think on that before he acts? However, she did ask him "if" he should call me.....but she was flustered and didn't demand it. She consented because she wanted out of the situation. Had he been in a position to call me I had enough info on both of us to convince him that my firearms and I were safely on the recliner at home.

Incidentally my son has successfully used the "it's not my car - call my mom if you want to search it" line and gotten by unsearched even under the threat of a K9.

I do feel better now. The car is sold and the only tag in my name now is my motorcycle, and no one rides that but me 8)
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Re: Pulled over for a search?

Post by djthomas »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Had she not consented, the LEO's ploy of "the car is registered to a CHL holder so that's RAS that there may be a gun in the car" wouldn't hold up on appeal.
Had she not consented, he could have impounded the car and left her on the side of the road due to the driver license issue. At that point an administrative search incident to the impound would be completely lawful, RAS or not.
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Re: Pulled over for a search?

Post by Werz »

JediSkipdogg wrote:
fisher wrote:I thought that given a name and DOB , the mobile police computer can pull up a copy of the DL.
A few weeks ago we dealt with a guy that lied on his info to avoid a warrant. He gave us his brother's info and it matched the description.
That is very common. I have seen at least a dozen situations where offenders have memorized a sibling's name, DOB, and SSN to give to police officers when stopped. And every time I have seen it reported, it was not the first time it had happened. BMV images on MDTs make it more difficult to do, but it still happens. I have no problem charging those people with felony Identity Fraud because they usually make their brother or sister miserable
JediSkipdogg wrote:Funny thing is, his brother had a much more serious warrant and he told us the truth once we told him what his warrant was for.
I saw one of those, too. It made me laugh.
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Re: Pulled over for a search?

Post by Klingon00 »

To look at this situation another way, had the car been stolen along with my firearm, I'd be grateful if the police caught the person and put them away for a long time. If they were caught with my firearm without a CHL/ID, all issues of who the person claims to be are somewhat moot and makes the job of an arrest more clear cut for the LEO.

That said, I wonder how long it would take to get my property back from evidence?
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