Unarmed attackers

[Tweed Ring]

There are people doing time in Ohio who beat other people to death with just their fists and their shod feet. Sometimes it was an accident the victim died- sometimes it was on purpose. Their victims are just as dead, whether intentional or not.

[fyrfytr310]

Man I'm sorry to hear all this

[carmen fovozzo]

Where is Charles Bronson when you need him.....sounds like only a few thugs doing the damage....shouldn't be to much of a problem..

[WeinerDog]

This kinda relates to what I have been thinking lately, that if cops are getting in trouble for shooting unarmed perps, you know some poor licensees are gonna get crucified no matter how justified the shoot.
We have got to quit capitulating to these families screaming for justice when justice was served at the time of the shooting.

[fyrfytr310]

This kinda relates to what I have been thinking lately, that if cops are getting in trouble for shooting unarmed perps, you know some poor licensees are gonna get crucified no matter how justified the shoot.
We have got to quit capitulating to these families screaming for justice when justice was served at the time of the shooting.

I wish there was an applause smiley.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

...I think I know how to defend myself...

...For those of you who think people without weapons are not a threat, think again...

Most law-abiding citizens have never actually been punched. Until you experience it, they cannot truly understand it.

... Who would have thought someone could be so determined to attack when there are cops around...

Who? Anyone that had the proper historic knowledge.

Cops hanging out down the block? Heck, here are a few incidents that happened IN THE POLICE STATION LOBBY:

"Officer justified in shooting man in West Valley police lobby" (because the man pulled a gun on the officer)
Salt Lake City, UT - July, 2013

"LAPD Officer Shot Multiple Times in Gun-Battle Inside Lobby of Police Station"
Los Angeles, CA - April, 2014

"Woman shot in Longview Police Department lobby confirmed dead" (after threatening cops with a knife)
Longview, TX - January, 2015

...and before you think it couldn't happen in central Ohio...it already has. Few people in central Ohio remember the woman that was shot trying to get help from the Reynoldsburg police department on Main Street back in 1991:

Debbie Vonschriltz, then 29, ran for help to Reynoldsburg's police station on E. Main Street in 1991. Her husband, with a gun, was following her as she was met with a locked door.

The shots to her back, belly and shoulder left her paralyzed from the chest down. Charles R. Vonschriltz, 34, was sentenced to 17 to 25 years in prison after pleading guilty to attempted murder and kidnapping.

I remember it well because that was the same year I was attacked at a gas station in Columbus.

...I must have really made these criminals mad I guess...

Nope. You didn't make them mad, they simply identified you as a target.

...no matter how good you do in life, life is cruel and there are some really bad guys out there.

And there is no sure way to know when and where you will meet up with those bad guys, or what they will do when they meet you.

You know the old saying, "It's better to have a gun and not need it, than to get the crap beaten out of you" (or something like that).

[Bama.45]

I see you are new here so let me first say welcome.

All this happened because I stood my ground at a restaurant/bar and I never attacked them first.

I think it's important to note that Ohio is not a "Stand Your Ground" state, and that you have a legal duty to retreat in a confrontation, regardless of who started it. Pride may not stand up well in court should you be forced to defend yourself in the future. I know that nobody wants to put up with injustice, but sometimes your life, health and freedom may be more precious.

Tweeds words of advise above are wise. I implore you to take them to heart.

Don't forget though that the duty to retreat says you must if it can be done safely, is: Don't try to run across a four lane in rush hour traffic.

[CroManGun]

Tweed's Iron Triangle of Trouble is, I believe, a great exercise in avoiding the probability of encountering trouble.

The reality, however, is that bad things can and do happen even when and where they are least expected.
To that end, I have devised my Duality of Danger mindset: BAD people can and will do BAD things; anytime, anywhere.
The best you can do is to stay ready. Situational awareness is paramount. As Will Smith said, "If you stay ready, you ain't gotta get ready."

[Bama.45]

Tweed's Iron Triangle of Trouble is, I believe, a great exercise in avoiding the probability of encountering trouble.

The reality, however, is that bad things can and do happen even when and where they are least expected.
To that end, I have devised my Duality of Danger mindset: BAD people can and will do BAD things; anytime, anywhere.
The best you can do is to stay ready. Situational awareness is paramount. As Will Smith said, "If you stay ready, you ain't gotta get ready."

That's the mindset that I had to teach my wife..We were having a conversation one day and she said"Well that place has never had any real trouble."..I told her bad folks just don't stay in bad areas, they travel around..And most of them are criminals of opportunity, if they see an opportunity, they will act....She said she had never thought of it like that..And I told her that is normal, there was a time when I didn't think about it like that..But Bad things can happen at anytime and at anyplace.

[deanimator]

As I recall, the first high profile CCW shooting involved a very large Samoan gentleman named Tavai.

Tavai was in a vehicle which was involved in a hit-skip accident. The victim followed the perpetrator in order to get his license plate number.

While both vehicles were stopped in traffic, Tavai exited his vehicle and reaching through the victim's open window, began savagely punching him in the face (to the point where the victim suffered serious eye damage).

The victim warned Tavai that he had a license, was armed, and would shoot him if he continued punching him in the face.

Tavai continued punching him.

The victim shot Tavai dead.

I believe the victim was no-billed, the general consensus being, that if you CHOSE to savagely beat somebody:

• Smaller than you.
• Incapable of withdrawing

You should EXPECT to get shot.

Little Artie Buford here in Cleveland learned the similar lesson that if you're out on probation for... armed robbery, you shouldn't be surprised if you get shot while committing... an armed robbery.

[muxtech]

I don't understand how if you were warned in advance about these individuals, then were harassed by them in a restaurant/bar, why you would leave relative safety to go on foot alone & unarmed only to be "surprised" when they pursued and attacked you from behind.

I believe your story, I just don't understand it from a self defense point of view. How much warning to a threat does it take to try to mitigate said threat?

CCW is only a part of my preparedness for such an attack. I train weekly and study in preparation for this type of encounter.

Two books that I highly recommend are Sgt. Rory Miller's, Meditations on Violence, and Facing Violence. We live in a different "world" than your attackers do. It's helpful to fully understand who and what they are, and how they think and act, and how we might best avoid the unfortunate outcome of your encounter.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159439 ... _i=desktop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BobK]

As I recall, the first high profile CCW shooting involved a very large Samoan gentleman named Tavai.

Tavai was in a vehicle which was involved in a hit-skip accident.

Yep, that was the first self defense case in Texas after the concealed handgun law was passed in 1995.

The CHL law went into effect on Jan 1. 1996. Mr. Gordon Reid Hale III was a newly licensed CHL when he was forced to defend himself on Feb. 21, 1996. The Dallas Grand Jury no-billed him.

Of course, the actual case depended upon a self defense justification and that law did not change when the CHL law first went into effect. If the shooting had instead happened two years earlier, Mr. Hale still would have been no-billed regarding Tavai's shooting as the facts were about the use of deadly force, not about having a handgun license. What made it a landmark case was he didn't get charged with carrying an illegal weapon. If the shooting prior to the CHL law, Hale would have been prosecuted for carrying a handgun illegally.

http://www.csmonitor.com/1996/0325/25032.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Ray81]

I don't understand how if you were warned in advance about these individuals, then were harassed by them in a restaurant/bar, why you would leave relative safety to go on foot alone & unarmed only to be "surprised" when they pursued and attacked you from behind.

I believe your story, I just don't understand it from a self defense point of view. How much warning to a threat does it take to try to mitigate said threat?

CCW is only a part of my preparedness for such an attack. I train weekly and study in preparation for this type of encounter.

Two books that I highly recommend are Sgt. Rory Miller's, Meditations on Violence, and Facing Violence. We live in a different "world" than your attackers do. It's helpful to fully understand who and what they are, and how they think and act, and how we might best avoid the unfortunate outcome of your encounter.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159439 ... _i=desktop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well I walked right past the cops and then 1 block away I was attacked. Just seeing the cops there I felt safe and thought nothing will happen and I kept walking since my home is a few blocks away.

Plus I had never been in a knock down dragout fight like this before so me being careless, worry free made me end up being the victim. I had no idea i would get attacked from behind.

[deanimator]

Yep, that was the first self defense case in Texas after the concealed handgun law was passed in 1995.

That was just one of a number of past Texas cases in which stupid people played stupid games and won stupid prizes.

Another was the Scotsman in Houston.

He decided to get stupid drunk and then hail a cab.

Directing the cabby to a residential neighborhood he, without warning, bailed and took off running.

Seemingly at random, he choose to scale the high fence surrounding somebody's backyard.

Reaching the back door, he began trying to kick it in.

Aroused by the noise, the home owner told the Scotsman that he was armed and that if he continued trying to kick the door in and succeeded, he'd be shot.

The Scotsman continued, managed to kick in one or more panels of the door... and was shot, fatally.

Needless to say, mental defectives across the world bleated piteously about how "unfair" this was.

At the time in usenet, a Brit commented about how "barbaric" it was that in the United States, you can't get drunk out of your mind and go kicking doors in at night without fear of being shot.

I replied to him:
If that's how liquor affects you,

1. stop drinking.
2. if you can't stop drinking on your own, get help.
3. if you refuse 1 or 2, get shot.

The Brit reacted to the above with great indignation.

I laughed and laughed...

[Bama.45]

Yep, that was the first self defense case in Texas after the concealed handgun law was passed in 1995.

That was just one of a number of past Texas cases in which stupid people played stupid games and won stupid prizes.

Another was the Scotsman in Houston.

He decided to get stupid drunk and then hail a cab.

Directing the cabby to a residential neighborhood he, without warning, bailed and took off running.

Seemingly at random, he choose to scale the high fence surrounding somebody's backyard.

Reaching the back door, he began trying to kick it in.

Aroused by the noise, the home owner told the Scotsman that he was armed and that if he continued trying to kick the door in and succeeded, he'd be shot.

The Scotsman continued, managed to kick in one or more panels of the door... and was shot, fatally.

Needless to say, mental defectives across the world bleated piteously about how "unfair" this was.

At the time in usenet, a Brit commented about how "barbaric" it was that in the United States, you can't get drunk out of your mind and go kicking doors in at night without fear of being shot.

I replied to him:
If that's how liquor affects you,

1. stop drinking.
2. if you can't stop drinking on your own, get help.
3. if you refuse 1 or 2, get shot.

The Brit reacted to the above with great indignation.

I laughed and laughed...

If the Brits don't mind having a drunk kick their door in..Then more power to them..That crap don't fly over here, drunk or not...Someone kicks my door in, they'd better have good insurance, be it health or life..Because the lead will fly..I can promise that.