Unarmed attackers
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Re: Unarmed attackers
There are people doing time in Ohio who beat other people to death with just their fists and their shod feet. Sometimes it was an accident the victim died- sometimes it was on purpose. Their victims are just as dead, whether intentional or not.
- fyrfytr310
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Re: Unarmed attackers
Man I'm sorry to hear all this
-Mike
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"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People."
Tench Coxe
NRA Life Member
"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People."
Tench Coxe
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Re: Unarmed attackers
Where is Charles Bronson when you need him.....sounds like only a few thugs doing the damage....shouldn't be to much of a problem..
Life is full of God given coincidences..
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
Thanks for shopping at Charmin Carmens
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
Thanks for shopping at Charmin Carmens
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Re: Unarmed attackers
This kinda relates to what I have been thinking lately, that if cops are getting in trouble for shooting unarmed perps, you know some poor licensees are gonna get crucified no matter how justified the shoot.
We have got to quit capitulating to these families screaming for justice when justice was served at the time of the shooting.
We have got to quit capitulating to these families screaming for justice when justice was served at the time of the shooting.
- fyrfytr310
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Re: Unarmed attackers
I wish there was an applause smiley.WeinerDog wrote:This kinda relates to what I have been thinking lately, that if cops are getting in trouble for shooting unarmed perps, you know some poor licensees are gonna get crucified no matter how justified the shoot.
We have got to quit capitulating to these families screaming for justice when justice was served at the time of the shooting.
-Mike
NRA Life Member
"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People."
Tench Coxe
NRA Life Member
"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People."
Tench Coxe
- MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Unarmed attackers
Ray81 wrote:...I think I know how to defend myself...
Most law-abiding citizens have never actually been punched. Until you experience it, they cannot truly understand it.Ray81 wrote:...For those of you who think people without weapons are not a threat, think again...
Who? Anyone that had the proper historic knowledge.Ray81 wrote:... Who would have thought someone could be so determined to attack when there are cops around...
Cops hanging out down the block? Heck, here are a few incidents that happened IN THE POLICE STATION LOBBY:
"Officer justified in shooting man in West Valley police lobby" (because the man pulled a gun on the officer)
Salt Lake City, UT - July, 2013
"LAPD Officer Shot Multiple Times in Gun-Battle Inside Lobby of Police Station"
Los Angeles, CA - April, 2014
"Woman shot in Longview Police Department lobby confirmed dead" (after threatening cops with a knife)
Longview, TX - January, 2015
...and before you think it couldn't happen in central Ohio...it already has. Few people in central Ohio remember the woman that was shot trying to get help from the Reynoldsburg police department on Main Street back in 1991:
I remember it well because that was the same year I was attacked at a gas station in Columbus.Debbie Vonschriltz, then 29, ran for help to Reynoldsburg's police station on E. Main Street in 1991. Her husband, with a gun, was following her as she was met with a locked door.
The shots to her back, belly and shoulder left her paralyzed from the chest down. Charles R. Vonschriltz, 34, was sentenced to 17 to 25 years in prison after pleading guilty to attempted murder and kidnapping.
Nope. You didn't make them mad, they simply identified you as a target.Ray81 wrote:...I must have really made these criminals mad I guess...
And there is no sure way to know when and where you will meet up with those bad guys, or what they will do when they meet you.Ray81 wrote:...no matter how good you do in life, life is cruel and there are some really bad guys out there.
You know the old saying, "It's better to have a gun and not need it, than to get the crap beaten out of you" (or something like that).
MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Unarmed attackers
Klingon00 wrote:I see you are new here so let me first say welcome.
I think it's important to note that Ohio is not a "Stand Your Ground" state, and that you have a legal duty to retreat in a confrontation, regardless of who started it. Pride may not stand up well in court should you be forced to defend yourself in the future. I know that nobody wants to put up with injustice, but sometimes your life, health and freedom may be more precious.Ray81 wrote: All this happened because I stood my ground at a restaurant/bar and I never attacked them first.
Tweeds words of advise above are wise. I implore you to take them to heart.
Don't forget though that the duty to retreat says you must if it can be done safely, is: Don't try to run across a four lane in rush hour traffic.
"Lord, make my hand fast and accurate.
Let my aim be true and my hand faster
than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine.
Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun."
And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
Amen
U.S. Marines 01-07
~The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.~ Thomas Jefferson
Let my aim be true and my hand faster
than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine.
Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun."
And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
Amen
U.S. Marines 01-07
~The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Unarmed attackers
Tweed's Iron Triangle of Trouble is, I believe, a great exercise in avoiding the probability of encountering trouble.
The reality, however, is that bad things can and do happen even when and where they are least expected.
To that end, I have devised my Duality of Danger mindset: BAD people can and will do BAD things; anytime, anywhere.
The best you can do is to stay ready. Situational awareness is paramount. As Will Smith said, "If you stay ready, you ain't gotta get ready."
The reality, however, is that bad things can and do happen even when and where they are least expected.
To that end, I have devised my Duality of Danger mindset: BAD people can and will do BAD things; anytime, anywhere.
The best you can do is to stay ready. Situational awareness is paramount. As Will Smith said, "If you stay ready, you ain't gotta get ready."
Genuine Scooter Trash
Member: NRA/OFCC/AAA/GER/AFG
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I Am Not A Lawyer, But I Have Played One In Real Life
Member: NRA/OFCC/AAA/GER/AFG
Former Member: Amish Chippendales
I Am Not A Lawyer, But I Have Played One In Real Life
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Re: Unarmed attackers
That's the mindset that I had to teach my wife..We were having a conversation one day and she said"Well that place has never had any real trouble."..I told her bad folks just don't stay in bad areas, they travel around..And most of them are criminals of opportunity, if they see an opportunity, they will act....She said she had never thought of it like that..And I told her that is normal, there was a time when I didn't think about it like that..But Bad things can happen at anytime and at anyplace.CroManGun wrote:Tweed's Iron Triangle of Trouble is, I believe, a great exercise in avoiding the probability of encountering trouble.
The reality, however, is that bad things can and do happen even when and where they are least expected.
To that end, I have devised my Duality of Danger mindset: BAD people can and will do BAD things; anytime, anywhere.
The best you can do is to stay ready. Situational awareness is paramount. As Will Smith said, "If you stay ready, you ain't gotta get ready."
"Lord, make my hand fast and accurate.
Let my aim be true and my hand faster
than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine.
Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun."
And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
Amen
U.S. Marines 01-07
~The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.~ Thomas Jefferson
Let my aim be true and my hand faster
than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine.
Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun."
And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
Amen
U.S. Marines 01-07
~The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.~ Thomas Jefferson
- deanimator
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Re: Unarmed attackers
As I recall, the first high profile CCW shooting involved a very large Samoan gentleman named Tavai.
Tavai was in a vehicle which was involved in a hit-skip accident. The victim followed the perpetrator in order to get his license plate number.
While both vehicles were stopped in traffic, Tavai exited his vehicle and reaching through the victim's open window, began savagely punching him in the face (to the point where the victim suffered serious eye damage).
The victim warned Tavai that he had a license, was armed, and would shoot him if he continued punching him in the face.
Tavai continued punching him.
The victim shot Tavai dead.
I believe the victim was no-billed, the general consensus being, that if you CHOSE to savagely beat somebody:
Little Artie Buford here in Cleveland learned the similar lesson that if you're out on probation for... armed robbery, you shouldn't be surprised if you get shot while committing... an armed robbery.
Tavai was in a vehicle which was involved in a hit-skip accident. The victim followed the perpetrator in order to get his license plate number.
While both vehicles were stopped in traffic, Tavai exited his vehicle and reaching through the victim's open window, began savagely punching him in the face (to the point where the victim suffered serious eye damage).
The victim warned Tavai that he had a license, was armed, and would shoot him if he continued punching him in the face.
Tavai continued punching him.
The victim shot Tavai dead.
I believe the victim was no-billed, the general consensus being, that if you CHOSE to savagely beat somebody:
- Smaller than you.
- Incapable of withdrawing
Little Artie Buford here in Cleveland learned the similar lesson that if you're out on probation for... armed robbery, you shouldn't be surprised if you get shot while committing... an armed robbery.
Life comes at you fast. Be prepared to shoot it in the head when it does.
- muxtech
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Re: Unarmed attackers
I don't understand how if you were warned in advance about these individuals, then were harassed by them in a restaurant/bar, why you would leave relative safety to go on foot alone & unarmed only to be "surprised" when they pursued and attacked you from behind.
I believe your story, I just don't understand it from a self defense point of view. How much warning to a threat does it take to try to mitigate said threat?
CCW is only a part of my preparedness for such an attack. I train weekly and study in preparation for this type of encounter.
Two books that I highly recommend are Sgt. Rory Miller's, Meditations on Violence, and Facing Violence. We live in a different "world" than your attackers do. It's helpful to fully understand who and what they are, and how they think and act, and how we might best avoid the unfortunate outcome of your encounter.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159439 ... _i=desktop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I believe your story, I just don't understand it from a self defense point of view. How much warning to a threat does it take to try to mitigate said threat?
CCW is only a part of my preparedness for such an attack. I train weekly and study in preparation for this type of encounter.
Two books that I highly recommend are Sgt. Rory Miller's, Meditations on Violence, and Facing Violence. We live in a different "world" than your attackers do. It's helpful to fully understand who and what they are, and how they think and act, and how we might best avoid the unfortunate outcome of your encounter.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159439 ... _i=desktop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The British are going! The British are going!
- BobK
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Re: Unarmed attackers
Yep, that was the first self defense case in Texas after the concealed handgun law was passed in 1995.deanimator wrote:As I recall, the first high profile CCW shooting involved a very large Samoan gentleman named Tavai.
Tavai was in a vehicle which was involved in a hit-skip accident.
The CHL law went into effect on Jan 1. 1996. Mr. Gordon Reid Hale III was a newly licensed CHL when he was forced to defend himself on Feb. 21, 1996. The Dallas Grand Jury no-billed him.
Of course, the actual case depended upon a self defense justification and that law did not change when the CHL law first went into effect. If the shooting had instead happened two years earlier, Mr. Hale still would have been no-billed regarding Tavai's shooting as the facts were about the use of deadly force, not about having a handgun license. What made it a landmark case was he didn't get charged with carrying an illegal weapon. If the shooting prior to the CHL law, Hale would have been prosecuted for carrying a handgun illegally.
http://www.csmonitor.com/1996/0325/25032.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am a: NRA Life Member, Texas State Rifle Association Life Member, Texas Firearms Coalition Gold member, OFCC Patron Member, former JFPO member (pre-SAF).
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More Obamination. Idiots. Can't we find an electable (R) for 2016?
This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
More Obamination. Idiots. Can't we find an electable (R) for 2016?
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Re: Unarmed attackers
muxtech wrote:I don't understand how if you were warned in advance about these individuals, then were harassed by them in a restaurant/bar, why you would leave relative safety to go on foot alone & unarmed only to be "surprised" when they pursued and attacked you from behind.
I believe your story, I just don't understand it from a self defense point of view. How much warning to a threat does it take to try to mitigate said threat?
CCW is only a part of my preparedness for such an attack. I train weekly and study in preparation for this type of encounter.
Two books that I highly recommend are Sgt. Rory Miller's, Meditations on Violence, and Facing Violence. We live in a different "world" than your attackers do. It's helpful to fully understand who and what they are, and how they think and act, and how we might best avoid the unfortunate outcome of your encounter.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159439 ... _i=desktop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Well I walked right past the cops and then 1 block away I was attacked. Just seeing the cops there I felt safe and thought nothing will happen and I kept walking since my home is a few blocks away.
Plus I had never been in a knock down dragout fight like this before so me being careless, worry free made me end up being the victim. I had no idea i would get attacked from behind.
- deanimator
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Re: Unarmed attackers
That was just one of a number of past Texas cases in which stupid people played stupid games and won stupid prizes.BobK wrote:Yep, that was the first self defense case in Texas after the concealed handgun law was passed in 1995.
Another was the Scotsman in Houston.
He decided to get stupid drunk and then hail a cab.
Directing the cabby to a residential neighborhood he, without warning, bailed and took off running.
Seemingly at random, he choose to scale the high fence surrounding somebody's backyard.
Reaching the back door, he began trying to kick it in.
Aroused by the noise, the home owner told the Scotsman that he was armed and that if he continued trying to kick the door in and succeeded, he'd be shot.
The Scotsman continued, managed to kick in one or more panels of the door... and was shot, fatally.
Needless to say, mental defectives across the world bleated piteously about how "unfair" this was.
At the time in usenet, a Brit commented about how "barbaric" it was that in the United States, you can't get drunk out of your mind and go kicking doors in at night without fear of being shot.
I replied to him:
If that's how liquor affects you,
- stop drinking.
- if you can't stop drinking on your own, get help.
- if you refuse 1 or 2, get shot.
I laughed and laughed...
Life comes at you fast. Be prepared to shoot it in the head when it does.
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Re: Unarmed attackers
deanimator wrote:That was just one of a number of past Texas cases in which stupid people played stupid games and won stupid prizes.BobK wrote:Yep, that was the first self defense case in Texas after the concealed handgun law was passed in 1995.
Another was the Scotsman in Houston.
He decided to get stupid drunk and then hail a cab.
Directing the cabby to a residential neighborhood he, without warning, bailed and took off running.
Seemingly at random, he choose to scale the high fence surrounding somebody's backyard.
Reaching the back door, he began trying to kick it in.
Aroused by the noise, the home owner told the Scotsman that he was armed and that if he continued trying to kick the door in and succeeded, he'd be shot.
The Scotsman continued, managed to kick in one or more panels of the door... and was shot, fatally.
Needless to say, mental defectives across the world bleated piteously about how "unfair" this was.
At the time in usenet, a Brit commented about how "barbaric" it was that in the United States, you can't get drunk out of your mind and go kicking doors in at night without fear of being shot.
I replied to him:
If that's how liquor affects you,The Brit reacted to the above with great indignation.
- stop drinking.
- if you can't stop drinking on your own, get help.
- if you refuse 1 or 2, get shot.
I laughed and laughed...
If the Brits don't mind having a drunk kick their door in..Then more power to them..That crap don't fly over here, drunk or not...Someone kicks my door in, they'd better have good insurance, be it health or life..Because the lead will fly..I can promise that.
"Lord, make my hand fast and accurate.
Let my aim be true and my hand faster
than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine.
Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun."
And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
Amen
U.S. Marines 01-07
~The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.~ Thomas Jefferson
Let my aim be true and my hand faster
than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine.
Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun."
And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
Amen
U.S. Marines 01-07
~The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.~ Thomas Jefferson