Did I keep something from escalating?

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MyWifeSaidYes
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Did I keep something from escalating?

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

My wife and I were leaving a doctor's office Thursday afternoon when a gray SUV pulled into the parking lot. We noticed it because it was going a little too fast.

As the SUV passed us, we could hear someone yelling inside. They parked a few spaces down and across from us (nose-to-nose parking) and we could see that the male passenger was doing the yelling. The female driver started yelling back as she got out of the vehicle.

The male was upset about being there and wanted the female to give her the keys so he could leave. He continued his foul-mouthed screaming as he got out of the vehicle and came around to the driver side where the female was trying to get her child out of the back seat. The child appeared to be around 5 of 6 years old.

My wife and I commented on how this was a domestic dispute and how dangerous it is to interfere in something like that. We were in our car but I had not closed my driver side door yet when the female started guiding her child between the rows of cars towards the building, passing right in front of us.

As she stepped into the empty parking spot in front of us, the male caught up to her and grabbed her by the shoulder. This was the first contact I had seen him make with her.

I told my wife to call 911 as I stepped out of the car, remaining behind the door, and loudly said, "Hey! Don't touch her."

The male stopped and turned while the female and her child kept heading for the building. I got the expected "Mind your own <expletive deleted> business!" as well as many other profanity-laced descriptions about me and my heritage.

While he was talking, the male started slowly walking back towards me. I was still behind my car door with my left side angled away from him when I pulled my LCP from my left front pocket (yes, I have a pocket holster) and held it down at my side. He didn't notice this but he DID notice my wife holding her phone up against the front windshield taking pictures!

He was still cussing as he turned toward their SUV. I stayed put and kept an eye on him. The male walked back to the SUV, looked in the driver's door window and walked around the back to the passenger side. He walked through the row of cars I was parked in and started walking towards the exit, which took him right past the rear of my car. He asked, loudly, " Are we gonna' have a problem?"

As he walked past the space where I was standing, I told him that I didn't have any problems. I still had my LCP in my hand, at my side with my finger along the slide, and I had no problem leaving it right there for him to see. He kept walking. When he reached the main road, I gave 911 the license number of their vehicle.

When I asked my wife about the pictures, she told me she was just pretending to take pictures because she didn't want to risk losing the 911 call!!

The guy was big and seemed to have no fear of ME, but he DID seem to be taken aback when he thought he was being photographed !!

My voice recorder was running but it was in my coat pocket...and my coat was laying in the back seat. It didn't pick up a thing. Oops!
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Re: Did I keep something from escalating?

Post by CroManGun »

Sounds like you did OK. Tell your wife she needs to learn how to use her phone. I assume it's a smart phone. Even if she's on a call, she should be able to toggle over to the camera setting and take pics while the call is still active. Practice makes perfect. It's handy if you need to call 911 and you can still get pics of a vehicle or a person without having to hang up. Put the call on speakerphone and you can talk while you're snapping away.
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Re: Did I keep something from escalating?

Post by BobK »

Well done.
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Re: Did I keep something from escalating?

Post by 502ci »

I think it was pretty well done.

It is amazing how pointing a camera at someone whether you are actually taking a picture or not calms them down. I have done it with road ragers on the highway and they immediately start driving properly when they see they might be on film... :mrgreen:
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Re: Did I keep something from escalating?

Post by Chuck »

Good job!!
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Re: Did I keep something from escalating?

Post by Brian D. »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote: I got the expected "Mind your own <expletive deleted> business!" as well as many other profanity-laced descriptions about me and my heritage.
Out of context this part sounds to me like something that could have happened during any of your numerous encounters with county fair board officials through the years, Dave. :lol:

I think you and your wife did okay. Bet you that angry fellow has had his picture taken by the state or county a few times if you know what i'm saying, and he'd like to keep that from occurring again.
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Re: Did I keep something from escalating?

Post by carmen fovozzo »

Well Well. I do not agree the way you handled it....If they were husband and wife or just the parents of the kid, I don't believe putting your hand on a shoulder is a crime...
...I think you over reacted.....IMO..
I would of observerd a while longer...if he had been more aggressive then I would of spoken up as you did..and be at the ready as you did.....
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Re: Did I keep something from escalating?

Post by Brian D. »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:As she stepped into the empty parking spot in front of us, the male caught up to her and grabbed her by the shoulder.
Carmen from this part of MWSY's story I sort of inferred that the shoulder grab was not just a gentle touch, but more like a 'spin her around to yell at her face to face' sort of thing. If that wasn't the case you may well have a good point there.
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Re: Did I keep something from escalating?

Post by carmen fovozzo »

Spinning someone is not a crime I believe..This guy had many opportunities to assault this women in the car and did not as was observerd by Dave and his wife..I would think the car would be a more suited place for the assault if that was his intention.....it wasn't.....nor do I believe he planned it at anytime....we know the guy had a big mouth...which was all he had IMO.
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Re: Did I keep something from escalating?

Post by WeinerDog »

I take fearing for your life very literal. I am a small older guy with an artificial hip and I think I still would be more cautious about even discreetly pulling my weapon.
With all the hoopla these days about shooting someone unarmed, I would make darned sure it was a life threatening situation before thinking of my gun.
Once you are at the ready, it is so much easier to end up using you gun and possibly when a prosecutor deems it unnecessary. IMHO!
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Re: Did I keep something from escalating?

Post by Brian D. »

carmen fovozzo wrote:Spinning someone is not a crime I believe..This guy had many opportunities to assault this women in the car and did not as was observerd by Dave and his wife..I would think the car would be a more suited place for the assault if that was his intention.....it wasn't.....nor do I believe he planned it at anytime....we know the guy had a big mouth...which was all he had IMO.
Carmen, WE weren't there, Dave was. Someone is walking away you catch up and grab their shoulder hard enough to turn them around, that can be pretty rough handling...my presumption of course.

And technically, yes, any unwanted touching can be legally construed as assault, you know that. The cops will even charge a paisan like yourself, regardless of your claim that 'But officer, we Italians cannot make-a-the talk without-a using our hands'. :mrgreen:
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Re: Did I keep something from escalating?

Post by gaptrick »

If there's an altercation in front of me and my wife, and I interfere with it not knowing the level of crazy this guy COULD be at, my last thought on earth will NOT be, "...I SHOULD have been low and ready..."

What did the cops say when they showed up?
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Re: Did I keep something from escalating?

Post by CroManGun »

carmen fovozzo wrote:Spinning someone is not a crime I believe..This guy had many opportunities to assault this women in the car and did not as was observerd by Dave and his wife..I would think the car would be a more suited place for the assault if that was his intention.....it wasn't.....nor do I believe he planned it at anytime....we know the guy had a big mouth...which was all he had IMO.
Judging from hubby's behavior, I have no doubt that wifey has experienced some serious "hands on" time with him. If that's the case, more power to her. Evidently, she is content with his current behavior. Noticed that he wasn't the one driving; that's a little unusual.
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Re: Did I keep something from escalating?

Post by DontTreadOnMe »

I wasn't there so I can't say whether MWSY reacted appropriately. I will say that my family's safety is of paramount importance to me, and I have no plans to insert myself into someone else's argument esp. if doing so could escalate the harm to me, and therefore bring negative consequences to my family.

Then again, standing at a safe distance and pointing a cellphone camera at an abuser & having 911 on the line does seem like a good way of intervening without immediately placing yourself in unnecessary peril. Having the car running wouldn't be bad either. Not sure I'd have drawn in that scenario. Remember, duty to retreat.
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Re: Did I keep something from escalating?

Post by Tweed Ring »

I take a different position. I tend to be a devout coward. I acknowledge my lack of good fortune, and the dangers of violating the absolute tenets of the Iron Triangle of Trouble.

Given this fact-pattern, I believe I would have secured those with me in a locked vehicle, with the motor running, called 911, been a good witness, and immediately left the scene.

(Full disclosure. One bright, sunny, summer day, near the intersection of Eddy and Arlington Roads, I decided to assist a poor lady who was being beaten by two thugs. After they gave me a good tune up, I was supine on the sidewalk, she kicked me repeatedly. I remember her pink tennis shoes as I lay upon the sidewalk, attempting to protect my head from her repeated kicks. Taught me a valuable lesson - domestic situations can be dangerous, and intervention can be painful.)
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