Chicken Little: Mall Cop

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WestonDon
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Re: Chicken Little: Mall Cop

Post by WestonDon »

Speaking of judgemental, I have read nothing in this thread to indicate who made the MWAG call other than mall security drove by shortly before police arrived.
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Vex
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Re: Chicken Little: Mall Cop

Post by Vex »

WestonDon wrote:Speaking of judgemental, I have read nothing in this thread to indicate who made the MWAG call other than mall security drove by shortly before police arrived.
Bingo, and that's where the argument should stay. Not about what the "mall cop" looked like. Her weight, age, and perceived experience (which is laughable, by the way, to state you can read someone's experience level as they drive by) have NOTHING to do with the story.

There isn't even anything in the story that proves ANYONE called the police. The LEOs could have simply stopped by to see if they could do anything to help. There seems to be a lot missing from this story, which is why I question why the poster focused on the "chicken little" accusation of the young, "plus sized," and apparently newly hired mall cop.
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TJW815
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Re: Chicken Little: Mall Cop

Post by TJW815 »

Vex wrote:
TJW815 wrote:Vex, I cannot speak for the OP but he didn't call her "fat" he said plus sized. That in and of itself is not insulating in the context used it is a descriptor. As to the "newly hired" comment, he may have first hand knowledge and be trying to relay that as a potential reason former actions. I also can insert and the young comment as it is common accepts that young people are inexperienced for the most aspects of the legal world.

I think him giving an accurate description to the best of his abilities is a good thing for people that frequent that area so they know who they may bedealing with.

You on the other hand need to stop being so judgmental and learn to ask questions before jumping to conclusions. If your avatar is any indication of your chosen profession I hope that you take that piece of advice. I try (an sometimes succeed) at trying to see past the possible negatives and luck for the best possible explanation.

Now on the other hand. You may be right. But my comment still stands.
So wait, the OP insulted the mall cop and I'm the one being judgmental?

This is the most ------ thing I've ever read here. (I have censored my descriptor so I won't inadvertently offend your sensibilities.)

For the record, I did ask two questions. See my original response.

I should also point out that your "mall ninjas united" comment is offensive and insulting. You should stop being so judgemental. :lol:
Inferring you were a mall ninja is not judgmental at all. Insulting maybe, but that's only of you have a problem with that profession.

You seem to be stuck thinking that he was trying to insult the young lady. He hasn't responded to that accusation. I was simply trying to tell you that you should not be so quick to rush to judgment, as you have done here and in other posts lately.
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Re: Chicken Little: Mall Cop

Post by Vex »

TJW815 wrote: You seem to be stuck thinking that he was trying to insult the young lady. He hasn't responded to that accusation. I was simply trying to tell you that you should not be so quick to rush to judgment, as you have done here and in other posts lately.
My judgement in this case is sound. There is very little information about the actual encounter, and too much information about the "chicken little mall cop." A simple analysis of the focus of the post shows the OP doesn't care about the encounter, he's simply upset that some plus-sized security guard maybe called the police, and wondering if she maybe made false statements. You want to talk about someone being judgmental? Direct your attention to the OP.

You're trying to take the moral high ground by accusing me of being preemptively judgmental. Unfortunately, that position was rendered impossible when you insulted an entire profession of tax payers in your first post.
  • “You can get more of what you want with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word.” - Al Capone
  • “Victorious warriors win first, then go to war; defeated warriors go to war first, then seek to win.” - Sun-Tzu
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Werz
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Re: Chicken Little: Mall Cop

Post by Werz »

Vex wrote:
TJW815 wrote: You seem to be stuck thinking that he was trying to insult the young lady. He hasn't responded to that accusation. I was simply trying to tell you that you should not be so quick to rush to judgment, as you have done here and in other posts lately.
My judgement in this case is sound. There is very little information about the actual encounter, and too much information about the "chicken little mall cop." A simple analysis of the focus of the post shows the OP doesn't care about the encounter, he's simply upset that some plus-sized security guard maybe called the police, and wondering if she maybe made false statements. You want to talk about someone being judgmental? Direct your attention to the OP.

You're trying to take the moral high ground by accusing me of being preemptively judgmental. Unfortunately, that position was rendered impossible when you insulted an entire profession of tax payers in your first post.
Quite a few plus-sized folks amongst the serious activists in this organization. One should know who his friends are.
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letterofthelaw
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Re: Chicken Little: Mall Cop

Post by letterofthelaw »

Tweed Ring wrote:The Ohio Public Records Law is your friend. If you get any push-back on your public records request, cite Kish vs. Akron, one of my favorites. Each public entity has a records retention and destruction schedule, so time may not be on your side.
Cool, the tip is very much appreciated! I didn't have enough time to go through the whole process the other day, but made initial contact with a lady at the dispatcher's office who was positively excited to help me with the information requests. I have a lot going on at the moment, so there is a constant shift in priorities and progress on each of items. Today looks to be the day though.
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Re: Chicken Little: Mall Cop

Post by letterofthelaw »

Klingon00 wrote:So did the LEO's help out with the breakdown in any way? Nice of the Mall Security and LEO to care more about the legal gun than to help out with someone in obvious motoring distress.

The LEO's had absolutely zero interest in the motoring distress. The driver of the broken down car tried to talk to the LEO's but they said you are fine and waived him away, saying they wanted to talk to me. As soon as they realized that they didn't need to be there the LEO who stayed to talk to me put the car in drive took off.
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Re: Chicken Little: Mall Cop

Post by letterofthelaw »

Vex wrote:So you're mad at the "young, plus sized, newly hired" (you know this how, and how is this important) mall security officer, and insulting her and trying to track down her "false statements," which you're simply assuming exists, is just your way of getting retribution?

:roll:

Where do I say that I am mad at the security guard? The only comment I made which remotely indicating dissatisfaction was with one comments made by the LEO. As we know those in that line of work which claim to be an authority on the law may or may not be.

Anyone with eyeballs and a brain can determine generic age. Relative youth is easy to distinguish in physical characteristics from the relative age of someone eligible for elderly assisted living homes based on their physical characteristics. Same goes for determining the spectrum from slender to larger. I do happen to know the faces of security personnel which are there consistently along with which come and go. When I am not there to visit a particular business I am there to get exercise and walk, such as during bad weather. So I see different people in different days and shifts.

Were I the vindictive person you appear to wish me to be, I probably would have said things like child like, ignorant, unprofessional, corpulent, morbidly obese, etc.

Nor did I claim this person did actually make false statements. I wrote that I am curious what the 911 dispatcher's asked and how the person responded. In my non-law-enforcement professional opinion, the dispatcher could have asked if it was in a holster, if I was brandishing it, if I was acting hostile towards anyone, etc. Dispatchers should have used quality questioning in this situation as they do in any other to determine when LEO presence is actually appropriate.
letterofthelaw
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Re: Chicken Little: Mall Cop

Post by letterofthelaw »

curmudgeon3 wrote:See gun, call real cops. Well-versed mall ninja. :|

I highly disagree with this. Is the community of responsible gun owning adults not constantly banging on about how the presence of the firearm should not necessarily be the impetus for a 911 response?? Are there not multiple documented instances where LEO's and security personnel observe armed individuals, recognize they are not criminal in the making, and go on to more important matters? Who amongst us would want people to be trained to do what you are indicating?
letterofthelaw
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Re: Chicken Little: Mall Cop

Post by letterofthelaw »

TJW815 wrote:Vex, I cannot speak for the OP but he didn't call her "fat" he said plus sized. That in and of itself is not insulating in the context used it is a descriptor. As to the "newly hired" comment, he may have first hand knowledge and be trying to relay that as a potential reason former actions. I also can insert and the young comment as it is common accepts that young people are inexperienced for the most aspects of the legal world.

I think him giving an accurate description to the best of his abilities is a good thing for people that frequent that area so they know who they may bedealing with.

You on the other hand need to stop being so judgmental and learn to ask questions before jumping to conclusions. If your avatar is any indication of your chosen profession I hope that you take that piece of advice. I try (an sometimes succeed) at trying to see past the possible negatives and luck for the best possible explanation.

Now on the other hand. You may be right. But my comment still stands.
Winner winnner chicken dinner. You hit the nail on the head in several areas.

And as I previously stated, this is my first encounter of the kind. This is the best information I can provide. I did not feel comfortable rummaging for my phone to use the recorder to have more information to satisfy the armchair/couch critics here at the risk of provoking the LEO into escalating situation. When a person in this line of work is responding to a call of this nature, even I, as a non-LEO know that their first thought may well be that HANDS KILL and I do not wish to ever have someone draw on me, let alone become their bullet sponge.
letterofthelaw
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Re: Chicken Little: Mall Cop

Post by letterofthelaw »

Michael wrote:Were you detained? If so, I am curious what crime you were suspected of committing.
I was detained in so far as I was not free to leave since the LEO demanded identification and began questioning me. LEO stayed in the car the whole time. Handcuffs were never involved.
letterofthelaw
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Re: Chicken Little: Mall Cop

Post by letterofthelaw »

glocksmith wrote:So is the mall a well-posted CPZ or not? If its not a posted location, then I'm left still wondering the reason for the security guard's call to the police.


this has been discussed here a couple times. I think. http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php? ... pz#p381528" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the location I was at was not remotely in compliance with posting to be a CPZ. The other location across the street has been as far back as I can remember.
letterofthelaw
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Re: Chicken Little: Mall Cop

Post by letterofthelaw »

Vex wrote:
WestonDon wrote:Speaking of judgemental, I have read nothing in this thread to indicate who made the MWAG call other than mall security drove by shortly before police arrived.
Bingo, and that's where the argument should stay. Not about what the "mall cop" looked like. Her weight, age, and perceived experience (which is laughable, by the way, to state you can read someone's experience level as they drive by) have NOTHING to do with the story.

There isn't even anything in the story that proves ANYONE called the police. The LEOs could have simply stopped by to see if they could do anything to help. There seems to be a lot missing from this story, which is why I question why the poster focused on the "chicken little" accusation of the young, "plus sized," and apparently newly hired mall cop.

You are incorrect. They were not interested in the motoring distress as I indicated. They were solely interested in me and my firearm. There is no way that 2 LEO's used the force to just happened by. That is far from standard operating procedure in this area.
letterofthelaw
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Re: Chicken Little: Mall Cop

Post by letterofthelaw »

Werz wrote:
Vex wrote:
TJW815 wrote: You seem to be stuck thinking that he was trying to insult the young lady. He hasn't responded to that accusation. I was simply trying to tell you that you should not be so quick to rush to judgment, as you have done here and in other posts lately.
My judgement in this case is sound. There is very little information about the actual encounter, and too much information about the "chicken little mall cop." A simple analysis of the focus of the post shows the OP doesn't care about the encounter, he's simply upset that some plus-sized security guard maybe called the police, and wondering if she maybe made false statements. You want to talk about someone being judgmental? Direct your attention to the OP.

You're trying to take the moral high ground by accusing me of being preemptively judgmental. Unfortunately, that position was rendered impossible when you insulted an entire profession of tax payers in your first post.
Quite a few plus-sized folks amongst the serious activists in this organization. One should know who his friends are.
I do know who my friends are. Please by all means enlighten me on what the correct descriptor is.
letterofthelaw
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Re: Chicken Little: Mall Cop

Post by letterofthelaw »

I meant to do this in an actual reply to someone but will do this separately.

As I previously indicated, I was just trying to use descriptors. I am not using the words that I perceive to be blatantly offensive. I suspect had I made mention of this person being a black / African-American, Hispanic/Latino, or appearing to be of Asian heritage... again, only as a descriptor, with no other malicious overtones or slurs that I would now be defending myself from the same folks and possibly others calling me a racist simply because I used it as a descriptor.

If I also described them through a medical condition, such as wearing glasses, I also face accusations of being intolerant of that?
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