Use this forum to post your experience with encounters with law enforcement, criminals, or other encounters as a result of your firearm or potential to be carrying one.
color of law wrote:Because the law says it. You cannot have a law that says that if you do X in Y area it's a civil matter and then also say that if you do the same X in Y area it's a criminal matter. It makes one of the laws superfluous.
A sign is posted, it's civil. A sign is not posted, it's criminal.
Also, I'm not referring to Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robins, 447 U.S. 74.
So you're saying if I'm carrying a gun at the Monroe Prime Outlet Malls and marching around their parking lot only, I can do that all day long as I wish? Neither the Monroe PD or the Outlet Mall can kick me off their property or arrest me for trespassing?
If security says you can't be there, you have to leave, otherwise, it's criminal trespass if you refuse. I don't see how another section can override that, if it can, we've totally destroyed private property rights.
I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
Every situation is different. There are no pat answers. Only fools believe in pat answers.
Scenario 1: Posting of a private parking lot with a gunbuster sign + knowing disobedience of the gunbuster sign = civil trespass. R.C. 2923.126(C)(3)(a).
Scenario 2: Creating a disturbance (scaring the sheep) in a private parking lot + actual communication of oral notice to leave + refusal to leave = criminal trespass. R.C. 2911.21(A)(3).
For the latter scenario, the posting of a sign is irrelevant. An argument of privilege, created by a private parking lot being open to the public, must yield to the right of other invitees to quiet enjoyment of the premises. State v. Smith, 2012-Ohio-4861, at ¶16 (2nd Dist.).
HTH
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
Nothing. No incoming 911 calls. No Patrol to HQ radio traffic. Perhaps the Deputies were sitting on the property and the security just drove over and told them. I have seen a car on occasion hanging out in front of the abandoned Kroger in the that pseudo abandoned incomplete property you can see from 71. Perhaps there is an unofficial radio between security and the assigned Deputies and they were informed that way. Don't think its to much of a stretch since those walkie talkie handsets have got such a big range for not much money now.
letterofthelaw wrote:Nothing. No incoming 911 calls. No Patrol to HQ radio traffic. Perhaps the Deputies were sitting on the property and the security just drove over and told them. I have seen a car on occasion hanging out in front of the abandoned Kroger in the that pseudo abandoned incomplete property you can see from 71. Perhaps there is an unofficial radio between security and the assigned Deputies and they were informed that way. Don't think its to much of a stretch since those walkie talkie handsets have got such a big range for not much money now.
That's the end I guess.
They park down there a lot because well....there's quite a bit of crime from that mall. I guarantee you at least once a week mall security chases a theft suspect and the police get involved.
I've heard rumors that the security and police share some short range radios, yet I've never seen one and I hear dispatches from the Hamilton County Communications Center all the time with security as the caller. So my guess is they don't have any.
I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
I wonder if the mall is employing deputies for off-duty work. That might explain a little of the "attitude" the OP saw, if the deputy was not from Sycamore Township but instead, from corrections, making a couple of extra bucks.
Not sure they get cruiser when they do that, though... and Christmas seems like a more likely time.
147Doc wrote:I wonder if the mall is employing deputies for off-duty work. That might explain a little of the "attitude" the OP saw, if the deputy was not from Sycamore Township but instead, from corrections, making a couple of extra bucks.
Not sure they get cruiser when they do that, though... and Christmas seems like a more likely time.
AFAIK the mall hasn't gotten they bad. They generally always have 3-4 security on duty at all times and deputies don't go to far from the mall in the evening hours.
I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
