Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

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Sig1144
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Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

Post by Sig1144 »

I've been stopped three times since obtaining my CHL. The first two times I was armed, I notified the officer, and everything went fine.

This last time, I was not armed, so I did not notify. After taking my license and proof of insurance, the officer returned and asked me if I had something else to give him. I told him that I didn't understand his question. He then told me that when he ran my plates, he knew that had a CHL, and that I needed to give/show him my CHL. He then told me that anytime that I was asked for ID that I needed to also give my CHL.

I told him that was not my understanding of the ORC. That if I was not armed, that I did not need to notify. He then said that the ORC changes every year and that I must not be up to date with my reading of it. He said that my instructor should have told me that.

Actually, my instructor did tell me that, and also taught us that if anyone else drives a vehicle registered under my name that they would have to inform that the vehicle owner has a CHL and that they are not armed (ie: my wife). However, my subsequent reading and study of the ORC (Including discussions with retired and active LEO friends) did not reveal this need to notify if unarmed.

Anyway, I asked him some more questions about my need to notify and we had a pleasant conversation. My only other point of disagreement was that he said that if I was an unarmed passenger in a car and an officer asked for my ID that I should also include my CHL. I don't really understand that. I don't even see in the ORC a need to carry my CHL if I'm not armed. I also don't see a requirement to even have any ID if I'm not driving, never mind my CHL.

Sorry for the long post, I guess the point of the post is that I'm interested to hear your understanding of the ORC regarding the topic of notifying when unarmed.
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JediSkipdogg
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Re: Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

Post by JediSkipdogg »

You are correct....

Armed = notify
Not armed = not notify

This applies to anyone in said vehicle on a traffic stop. It doesn't matter who the car is registered to.

Did you happen to get the officer's name? I don't want to say you should start a war, but if you could maybe call his department and ask for his email address I would suggest sending him some info on the ORC. If you need help writing something, I'd be glad to help, although it could be a few days on that area. Quoting the exact ORC is the best method then he can either ignore it, reply back appologizing and thanking you, or somehow disagreeing with you (those are always the fun ones.)
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Sig1144
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Re: Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

Post by Sig1144 »

JediSkipdogg wrote:Did you happen to get the officer's name? I don't want to say you should start a war, but if you could maybe call his department and ask for his email address I would suggest sending him some info on the ORC. If you need help writing something, I'd be glad to help, although it could be a few days on that area. Quoting the exact ORC is the best method then he can either ignore it, reply back appologizing and thanking you, or somehow disagreeing with you (those are always the fun ones.)
I've been thinking of doing this. I have some access to this department because I work in their jurisdiction and my work brings me into contact with the department.

I did not get the officer's name, I didn't think of it till the next day. I could still write a letter to the department and reference the stop. I mostly, at that time, wanted to get home after another 12 hour work day that kicked my butt.

Thanks for the reply.
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Re: Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

Post by Tweed Ring »

My position on notification to police during a traffic stop is not popular herein. I train students to develop a paragraph to recite whenever stopped, whether carrying concealed or not, which covers most questions the trooper/deputy/officer may ask.

Over the years, I have come to believe that the most frequent interaction my CHL students will have is during their periodic traffic stops. Such interactions can be stressful at best; I find that learning and practicing my paragraph is the best way for my students to deal with traffic stops.

Other trainers will have other opinions.
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Re: Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

Post by Javelin Man »

Hand the officer your fishing, hunting, and snipe hunting license along with your CHL if you're unarmed.
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Re: Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

Post by pirateguy191 »

Was your instructor from the law enforcement community?
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Sig1144
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Re: Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

Post by Sig1144 »

pirateguy191 wrote:Was your instructor from the law enforcement community?
No
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Ray
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Re: Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

Post by Ray »

Sig1144....... Welcome to the forum.............. Many very Smart people on here......... :lol: :lol:

What County are you in, or the area would maybe help...........

If I'm ever stopped and I'm not carrying, I wouldn't notify. As the ORC only says we have to inform if were armed............

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Re: Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

Post by djthomas »

I'll be the first to admit that our CCW laws remain a work in progress and every two years or so we are indeed making changes. That being said the requirement about when notification must be made has been consistent for a decade. Yeah they've tweaked penalties here and there but the basic rule of Armed=Notify, Unarmed=Your Choice has never changed. I also don't see it being ripe for change any time in the near future.
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Re: Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

Post by deanimator »

It's called "pushing the envelope".

I had that same conversation with a Rocky River cop a few years ago. I didn't notify then, and I NEVER will as long as I'm unarmed.

I obey the LAW, not random whim.
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Re: Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

Post by color of law »

Tweed Ring wrote:My position on notification to police during a traffic stop is not popular herein. I train students to develop a paragraph to recite whenever stopped, whether carrying concealed or not, which covers most questions the trooper/deputy/officer may ask.

Over the years, I have come to believe that the most frequent interaction my CHL students will have is during their periodic traffic stops. Such interactions can be stressful at best; I find that learning and practicing my paragraph is the best way for my students to deal with traffic stops.

Other trainers will have other opinions.
Please recite that unpopular position.
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Re: Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

Post by evan price »

color of law wrote:
Tweed Ring wrote:My position on notification to police during a traffic stop is not popular herein. I train students to develop a paragraph to recite whenever stopped, whether carrying concealed or not, which covers most questions the trooper/deputy/officer may ask.

Over the years, I have come to believe that the most frequent interaction my CHL students will have is during their periodic traffic stops. Such interactions can be stressful at best; I find that learning and practicing my paragraph is the best way for my students to deal with traffic stops.

Other trainers will have other opinions.
Please recite that unpopular position.
Always notify, because to an officer, attitude is everything. Is it worth the hassle of standing on your righrs?
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Re: Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

Post by Tweed Ring »

color of law wrote:
Tweed Ring wrote:My position on notification to police during a traffic stop is not popular herein. I train students to develop a paragraph to recite whenever stopped, whether carrying concealed or not, which covers most questions the trooper/deputy/officer may ask.

Over the years, I have come to believe that the most frequent interaction my CHL students will have is during their periodic traffic stops. Such interactions can be stressful at best; I find that learning and practicing my paragraph is the best way for my students to deal with traffic stops.

Other trainers will have other opinions.
Please recite that unpopular position.
I want the notification requirement to be eliminated.

Having said the above, I train students to:
1.) Greet the LEO.
2.) State one’s name.
3.) State whether one is armed or not.
4.) Require if there is anything the driver can do to assist the officer.

My students' time is valuable. The officer's time is also valuable. I doubt any of those I have trained have become felons on-the-run. The more expeditiously the traffic stop can be completed, the faster the officer can leave my student to be on his way, and said officer can go seek a true criminal.

Traditionally, hereon, my philosophy of training students to deal with traffic stops has not been popular with other Ohio CHL trainers, with Ohio CHL holders, with non-trainers, hangers-on, transient posters, etc.

I have found that opinions are like orfices...everyone has them...
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Re: Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

Post by Werz »

Looking at this objectively, here is my point of view:
  • I don't like notification, and I don't think it's helpful. Nevertheless, it is statutory, and I don't anticipate it changing in the immediate future. Therefore, that is the paradigm under which we must operate.
  • I can understand an officer making a limited inquiry. If an officer sees the CHL notation on the mobile data terminal, it tells the officer that the registered owner of the vehicle has a CHL. Upon receiving the driver's other identification, the officer confirms that the registered owner is the driver. If the driver does not give the statutory notification, the officer is faced with several possibilities:
    1. The driver is unarmed.
    2. The driver is armed but forgot to notify.
    3. The driver is armed but is knowingly avoiding notification.
  • At that point, it is probably fair for the officer to ask, "Do you have a handgun with you today?" If the answer is "No," the officer's only reasonable response would be, "Just checking."
  • If the person is armed and apologizes for not notifying, the officer may cite the person for the minor misdemeanor. It is equally likely that the officer will say, "You need to remember to notify. I won't cite you, but I know guys who will."
  • I do have a problem with officers posing questions like "Do you have something else to give me?" or "Did you forget something?" It's not unlawful, but it's a bit smug, arrogant and rude.
  • I have a substantial problem with the officer arguing about the law. Either the officer is unfamiliar with the actually requirements of the law, or the officer is trying to excuse additional questions by misstating the law. In either case, the matter should be remedied by a supervisor, or it is likely to happen again.
That's just my 2¢.
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Re: Traffic Stop, Disagreement with Officer about ORC

Post by Stryker74 »

I was involved in an property damage accident a few weeks ago in Grove City. I called into GCPD dispatch to request an officer for a report.

As a courtesy - I notified dispatch of my CHL and that I was armed, asked that the responding officer be informed. That way, when I approach him for notification - he is already aware, and has decided how he wants to handle the situation. Like I said - its all about courtesy from my point of view. That encounter ended up with me handing the officer an OFCC flyer and a pleasant conversation.

I have notified in states where notification is not required - as a courtesy. Last time I did that, it wound up with a nice conversation on the firearm I was carrying and my choice of holster.


My goal is to be courteous and accommodating to help the officer get his job done. I don't like when others make my job more difficult, so I extend that to how I treat others. Being courteous and accommodating/pleasant to an officer does not equate to giving up my rights (or having them trampled) - it is just a nice way to get through the encounter.
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